To understand God you must understand Satan...

a reply to: throwaway115

Lol...


It blows my mind the way Christianity is based on Judaism, so you would think both religions would have the same foundational doctrine, however, Satan and hell are unique to Christianity..


How can Judaism not have a hell or devil, but Christianity does????


Does that make ANY sense at all lol??

a reply to: JoshuaCox

Satan is not unique to Christianity. Judaism just paints a different picture of Satan, they believe he is an agent of God.

a reply to: throwaway115

No I am actually trying to get you to back up your claim, it's odd you would make it and be so against backing it up. Utter refusal and ad-homs appears to be all you have which leads me to believe even you know your post is crap.

originally posted by: OccamsRazor04
a reply to: JoshuaCox

Satan is not unique to Christianity. Judaism just paints a different picture of Satan, they believe he is an agent of God.

Does that make him James Bond or something?

originally posted by: throwaway115
a reply to: OccamsRazor04

No claims made, just logical processes.

Try reading your Title.



That is one big claim.

originally posted by: InhaleExhale

originally posted by: throwaway115
a reply to: OccamsRazor04

No claims made, just logical processes.

Try reading your Title.



That is one big claim.

You are correct. It claims the content of my thread.

Which uses logical processes to back up that claim.

I'd say this thread is my claim to fame.

a reply to: throwaway115

Which uses logical processes to back up that claim.

Its only a 2 page thread and you have only posted a number of times.


What logical processes have you displayed to back up your claim?

I'd say this thread is my claim to fame.

That's nice

So attention seeking and trolling is your purpose here then?

a reply to: InhaleExhale

Yes.

But I have things to say!

originally posted by: throwaway115
a reply to: InhaleExhale

Yes.

But I have things to say!

i hope you say them with a rational explanation to back them up.

Satan is one of gods sons. He is here to test us to see if we can graduate to a higher realm. If we are not tested how can we be judged as to our worth. Passing the test is not as easy as following along with society on the wrong path.

If you were running a much higher civilization would you let a pile of disruptive people come in and mess it up?

WE are in school, continually tested to find if we can go into the real society. What happens if we do not pass the test?

a reply to: throwaway115

Without one you can't have the other?
How can you post such nonsense?

With out light all you have is darkness.
For the love of......

originally posted by: randyvs
a reply to: throwaway115

Without one you can't have the other?
How can you post such nonsense?

With out light all you have is darkness.
For the love of......

I stand corrected. Perhaps I was blinded by the truth...

Hail Lucifer. At least the Muslim has real faith. Do good in word and deed, and everything will be OK. Now is not the time for division. I love Christ and his followers. But now is the time for unity. Let's focus on the important things. It'd be damn nice if we all tolerate each other, and build a better world. Just saying. Dogma: just say no. Lol

a reply to: throwaway115

I think the traditional Satan, (pretty awesome guy by the way) was created when the faith came upon higher forms of resistance, as it grew larger, so they had to propose a reason to turn, and the reason was sin.


But yes there is evil, and you can not get the big picture without dipping in both pools.

As crazy as this sounds- Even the lame old christian way can be a path to true god and reality, but its a very sick way, there are much more efficient and morally sound ways to go about this.

-this is the message of ol beerbelly-

a reply to: enlightenedservant

Iblis should have known better.

Made of fire, powerful and vibrant yea....

But what happens when you throw a bunch of mud on a fire?

a reply to: rickymouse

I've wondered before if what you're saying is true. Questions though - Did you come to this belief based on your own intuition? Or has there been certain texts, material you've read along the way that has helped forumulate your belief? If so, what texts?

Or is it a combination of both?

a reply to: CreationBro

I get what you're saying. But just for the sake of argument, I'll add this perspective: it completely depends on how much fire we're talking about.

The Qur'an says that the Jinn are made from smokeless flames in Surat 55:15, Pickthall translation (other translations include that exact phrase in several other locations like 15:27 & 55:35). When I was younger, I used to equate "smokeless flames" to the stars. So if the Jinn were the size & composition of the Sun, I could see why a little mud figure would be irrelevant to them. In that example, the mud figure would vaporize long before it could even reach the Jinn.

a reply to: throwaway115

Wrong.

Satan is not a co creator, it is not a God and it is not more than you, to understand the devil would be more like understanding what evil YOU can stoop to.

The Devil was a creation given free will, he rebelled for a number of reasons but one of those was that he and his clique were ordered to worship Man, why well man has the breath of God within him while the devil and his clique did not but man being a later creature despite man having this un-created element within him Irked the devil whom regarded himself as second only to God and in fact thought that he should be god himself so the sudden arrival of being's with soul's was sure to rub this evil ego maniacal entity up the wrong way and so it exposed his true nature, gone was the shining cherubim, the beautiful prince and in it's place was a monster the true face of the fallen one.

The devil did not understand god and he was and is not God's opposite, God is absolute the devil is not and can never be, he had a beginning and has an end - even if that is an infinity away and is a creature simple as that.

The devil despite being vastly intelligent and far more knowledgeable than any person down here is not omniscient, not omnipresent and not omnipotent, he does not know the actual outcome of the universe and shape all things toward it but GOD is and DOES.

The devil is also probably not the first or in fact the actual greatest of God's creatures to ever have fallen, his place was in this period of god's creation while god has probably created many and perhaps even an infinite number of time's before.

What is a grain of sand before a mountain, a mountain before the world or the world before the cosmos and what is the cosmos before the infinite sea of creation all held within the creators hand so what is the devil before God - he is nothing an infinitesimally tiny speck of corruption, a catalyst that serves or served a purpose and was used up in that process to refine our soul's toward a goal that God only know's.

But I shall remind you, look long enough into the abyss and the abyss will look back, it is not God you are seeing but your own darkness and what you may fall too, choose to look instead into the positive, the light and the truth not the falsehood and neither follow the tempting path that offer's a quick solution but merely lead's you to quicksand.

a reply to: LABTECH767

For the longest time, I had a personal grudge with the Devil/Shaytan. And I admit that it was mostly from jealousy of his potential. In Islam, we believe that his power is the ability to speak to our hearts, the power of suggestion, and the ability to disguise his voice as our own. The Qur'an even refers to him with titles like "the Sneaking Whisperer".

So the way I saw it, he could've been the greatest Prophet and the guiding light for humanity. Imagine being able to directly reach every human w/your words, like a global conscience encouraging all of humanity to do right and warning people of the dangers of various situations. A being like that could reach more people than any prophet, preacher, rabbi, imam, or priest could ever dream of. So much wasted potential! And combine that ability with more than 150,000-250,000 years of experience from dealing modern humans and you'd have the ultimate spiritual guide for humanity.

I concluded that that's the real reason why Islam's Shaytan can never be forgiven. It's not just his initial act of defiance that makes him unforgivable; it's the fact that every single day he continues to intentionally defy God and nudge people in the wrong direction. I believe that every day that we wake up, we're being given another opportunity to change and/or improve ourselves. But dude just keeps doubling down on his sins, disobedience, and corruption.

At the same time that he's trying to persuade one person that he's a sympathetic figure, he's also trying to persuade other people to harm that first person's loved ones. He'll pretend to enlighten someone while encouraging someone else to stab his "student" in the back. No loyalty whatsoever lol.

So Iblis was sentenced to eternal hell for failing to bow to Adam and wanted only a "temporary reprieve" so he could prove that those made from fire are more worthy than those made from mud?

At least we now know fairy tales are not confined to the Judeo-Christian traditions...