Police Threaten Arrest If Citizens Speak Out Against the State-Sanctioned Death of Baby Alfie Evans

originally posted by: notsure1

originally posted by: DBCowboy
a reply to: notsure1

Parental rights do not exist in some countries.

The state is responsible for the life and death of your child if it is what the state decides.

All the more reason to love America...

Cripes. Using a dying child in England for political gain. Even getting guns in there. Yeah...Merica.

a reply to: CornishCeltGuy

are you accusing the Italian doctors of wishing to experiment on the child now?

Yes, to a degree. There was talk of a possible "experimental" treatment being used, Alfie was past any kind of treatment by this time.

originally posted by: gortex

originally posted by: bigfatfurrytexan
a reply to: gortex

Thats quite the set of crystal balls you got there. Can you give me lotto numbers, too?

Are you aware of a treatment that can reverse brain damage ?

Yes. CRISPR is just around the corner. Amd in a world where technology is experiencing exponential growth who knows what else will be available 2/5/10 years.

Alfie's been in a coma for over 12 months and his condition had deteriorated , if there were a hope for his recovery do you really believe that the medical staff at Alder Hey Children's Hospital would have taken the decision they did ?

Was a hope? Or they believed there was a hope? Fact is italy was willing to try. UK wanted him dead worse i guess. So bad they starved a weakened child to death.

The hope being offered by the Italians was intervention by God , a medical miracle , is that a reason to extend the child's suffering ?

No crystal balls needed my friend.

Prove the child was suffering.

originally posted by: Kurokage
a reply to: CornishCeltGuy

are you accusing the Italian doctors of wishing to experiment on the child now?

Yes, to a degree. There was talk of a possible "experimental" treatment being used, Alfie was past any kind of treatment by this time.

So you are saying the Italian healthcare system is wrong then? An EU approved, regulated, and legal option of care should be denied because of a subjective ethical opinion of a judge.
We'll have to agree to disagree because it comes down to that question of ethics, and so long as another EU member state was offering continuing care it is my opinion that denial of the option was ethically wrong.

Again, had it been denying the parents an option of witch doctors in Papua New Guinea, I would have agreed, but it wasn't, it was another EU healthcare service.

a reply to: bigfatfurrytexan

Prove the child was suffering.

I can't just as you can't prove he wasn't.

a reply to: bigfatfurrytexan


Can you prove he wasn't? Can you also prove that his brain would have lasted 2/5/10 years? His brain was deteriorating, there was no way back form that.

a reply to: CornishCeltGuy

You do realise that the EU Courts also rejected the appeal by the parents, ruling it inadmissable?

originally posted by: Kurokage
a reply to: bigfatfurrytexan


Can you prove he wasn't? Can you also prove that his brain would have lasted 2/5/10 years? His brain was deteriorating, there was no way back form that.

You cannot prove a negative.....so no. The burden of proof is on the one making the claims.

All i know is now that alfies murder is complete we just will not know.

Same reason i am 100% against the death penalty.

originally posted by: gortex
a reply to: bigfatfurrytexan

Prove the child was suffering.

I can't just as you can't prove he wasn't.

You made the claim....its on you to support it.

a reply to: CornishCeltGuy


I believe it's unethical to offer hope when there is none, the continuing care wouldn't have continued because he was dying and Italy would have dragged it out and Alfies death, because the pope said so.
The parents took Alfies case to the European court of human rights, who saw all the evidence obtained in Alfies case and agree with the UK's conclusion.

a reply to: Flavian

Again, I don't care what the courts subjective ethical opinion was, a fellow EU member state was offering a legally approved alternative of care for the child, but the judge said no, he must die in Britain.
It sickens me, and it sickens me that so many fellow Brits have blind faith in the subjective ethical opinion of a judge.
There was an offer which the EU approves for Italian citizens, but denied to an EU national in Britain because a judge said so.
It's an ethical argument so we could argue all day, but so long as there was a legal alternative in Italy I believe the judge was wrong to deny freedom of movement.

a reply to: bigfatfurrytexan

As I said , I can't.
Personally I doubt he was aware so perhaps he wasn't but the child deserved to be released , his death was inevitable only the time of his death was in question.

I've said my piece here , emotions are overruling minds.

This is gonna be a heated political debate. I totally admire and love the British people 🇬🇧 is a jewel of mankind. Being outside looking in thou, I can see the vice of its people thou still in 2018. When it comes to decisions on our children, no matter what UNLESS we do something that takes our rites away, it is our decisions for that child. No king, lord, president, queen etc. ours...

No judge has a right to tell parents they cannot try to save their child.. Period. You are responsible for the child... You have to live with your actions...

http://i can guarantee you the docs werent giving the child any substances that could reverse brain damage.


i could post dozens of articles talking about even OLD interventions that are known to slow or reverse brain degeneration.


the medical system is full of no imagination cookie cutter med school graduates who are taught to view people like cattle.

brain supplements



and an interview EVERYONE should see between Joe Rogan and Mel Gibson talking about the miracle of intravenous stem cell infusions. Doctor claims they "cured" AUTISM.

stem cell miracles on Joe Rogan



BOOM!

originally posted by: Kurokage
The parents took Alfies case to the European court of human rights, who saw all the evidence obtained in Alfies case and agree with the UK's conclusion.

No, they refused to take the case. No judgement was made, slightly different kettle of fish.
At the end of the day this will always be a subjective question of ethics. You agree with the judge and I don't.
I think it is wrong that the judge refused a legally recognised alternative of care in another EU country. I agree with UK doctors deciding that 'they' wished to withdraw treatment, but I cannot agree with a judge denying the alternative Italy was offering. It's effectively saying the Italian healthcare professionals are unethical.

a reply to: CornishCeltGuy

To your point...all the brits here who have complained about beimg rail roaded by the various governmental actions...why so much faith in the system?

Is it just an American thing to distrust government?

a reply to: tribal


Yeah cause Joe Rogan, And Mel Gibson are qualified to explain stem cell research, and the website you linked to is ridiculous mumbo jumbo to sell rubbish.

a reply to: gortex

We all will die....i just find that logic to be flat.

Fwiw, im not emotional in the least here. Passionate about human life? Yes. I wont kill insects either (without reason)

a reply to: bigfatfurrytexan

I think it’s just inherent for them to do so, they have been ruled for centuries up until recent modern times.

It is a little surprising thou not much outcry, I am wondering what would happen if this was tried in the states.

originally posted by: bigfatfurrytexan
a reply to: CornishCeltGuy

To your point...all the brits here who have complained about beimg rail roaded by the various governmental actions...why so much faith in the system?

Is it just an American thing to distrust government?

My opinion is that either my fellow Brits are so dependent on the warm blanket of the state that they cannot think for themselves any more, or they are worried that letting another EU nation take responsibility for the child's care would be a slight on the subjective ethical opinions of UK doctors and a judge.

I'll say it again, if the parents wanted to seek help from a witch doctor in Papua New Guinea then I'd agree to the refusal, but it wasn't, it was an EU member state, offering a completely legal alternative.
And as for the Brit member who criticised the father for giving his child mouth to mouth when struggling to breathe...absolutely sickening.