Salisbury toxin results in - NOT Novichok, NOT Russian

originally posted by: studio500
Apart from not being Nov, it doesn't prove anything.

Nada.

Lol. You mean apart from the main proof?

I don't know what "less lethal" means, either it's lethal or not? And as for giving the killer/s time to flee, it was left on a door handle apparently, you're not in danger of being pursued by a door.

originally posted by: Xcalibur254
a reply to: UKTruth

This is MH17 all over again.

The Brits says it's Novichok.

The OPCW say it's Novichok.

But because the Russians claim an independent analysis shows something different that's become the narrative for a subset of the population.

If Spiez Labs comes out tomorrow and says the Russians are lying people will claim they were influenced by TPTB. If they make their full analysis available to the public and it says Novichok, people will claim it was faked.

All because a propagandist made a statement that contradicts those findings.

You clearly don't know what you are talking about. The analysis the Russians have is from the Spiez Lab, part of a group of OPCW accredited labs. It's no more an 'independent analysis' than that of Porton Down. OPCW passed the samples to Spiez Lab for analysis.

We know that Spiez Lab confirmed that Novichok, or something similar, was found.

The Russian claim is that the Spiez Lab report also shows BZ being present, which is actually more consistent with the effects on the 3 victims.

What is important is for the full report to be released.

If you are going to believe what the British Govt. says at face value then you are a fool. My advice is to not be a fool and hold judgement until we're allowed to see the full report. If we are not allowed to see it, then the sensible approach is to assume that we can NOT blame the Russians or anyone else as we simply don't know.

- The Skripal poisoning happened on March 4.
- Eye witnesses described the Skripals as disoriented and probably hallucinating. The emergency personal suspected Fentanyl influence.
- A few days later the British government claimed that the Skripals had been affected by a chemical agent from the 'Novichok' series which they
attributed to Russia. It insinuated that the Skripals might die soon.
- A doctor of the emergency center at the Salisbury District Hospital publicly asserted that none of its patients was victim of a 'nerve agent'.
- On March 14, after much pressure from Russia, Britain finally invited the Organisation for the Prohibition of Chemical Weapons (OPCW) to analyze
the blood of the victims and to take environmental samples.
- The OPCW arrived on March 19 and took specimen on the following days. It also received a share of the samples taken earlier by the British
chemical weapon laboratory in Porton Down, which is only some 10 miles away from Salisbury.
- The OPCW split the various samples it had in a certified laboratory in the Netherlands and then distributed them to several other certified
laboratories for analysis.
- One of those laboratories was the highly regarded Spiez Laboratory in Switzerland which is part of the Swiss Federal Office for Civil Protection and
fully certified.
- On April 12 the OPCW published a public version of the result of the analyses it had received from its laboratories.
- A more extensive confidential version was given to the state members that make up the OPCW.

The Russians are saying the report passed to the OPCW by Spiez Lab had vital information stripped out of it - detail that shows a WESTERN developed nerve agent was found.

Any rational person would demand that the full details are released before getting the pitch forks out.

originally posted by: Fermy
I don't know what "less lethal" means, either it's lethal or not? And as for giving the killer/s time to flee, it was left on a door handle apparently, you're not in danger of being pursued by a door.

Less lethal generally refers to an item that can cause harm but generally not death.

The Taser / Baton / OC spray / bean bag rounds for shotguns are classified as less lethal. The appropriate use of the items generally does not cause death however in some circumstances misuse of / medical conditions can cause a death unintentionally.

Hope that makes sense.

a reply to: Xcathdra


Nope. Lethal is lethal, you don't die any less from a fatal occurrence no matter how it happens.

Spiez lab confirmed Novichok was found by Porton Down and confirms the results were of the highest standard.

mobile.twitter.com...

Portob Down states the Novichok was of the highest purity - i.e. no contamInants. BZ would be a contaminant. It’s not like the Russians have previous.

What do people need? Would Putin’s signature tattooed on his chest in polonium 210 laced ink, video footage of the assault playing on RT and satellite tracking of the assassin back to the Kremlin be enough? Probably not.

In the last few years we have had assassinations with polonium, VX gas and now Novichok. It needs to be stopped.

originally posted by: DrBobH
Spiez lab confirmed Novichok was found by Porton Down and confirms the results were of the highest standard.

mobile.twitter.com...

Portob Down states the Novichok was of the highest purity - i.e. no contamInants. BZ would be a contaminant. It’s not like the Russians have previous.

What do people need? Would Putin’s signature tattooed on his chest in polonium 210 laced ink, video footage of the assault playing on RT and satellite tracking of the assassin back to the Kremlin be enough? Probably not.

In the last few years we have had assassinations with polonium, VX gas and now Novichok. It needs to be stopped.

Maybe people need you to read the thread?
We already know Spiez Lab confirmed Novichok.
The claim from the Russians is that they also reported BZ, which the OPCW failed to include in their report.

What's the consensus on WikiLeaks here?

originally posted by: Fermy
What's the consensus on WikiLeaks here?

Such an aspect of collective minds coming together in order to agree an any such thoughts does not exist here except for the one i just typed.

At least we can all agree to disagree.

Now if you take it on face value then you will realize that wicker has never been known to hold water...

a reply to: UKTruth

But that is not what Spiez are saying - they are confirming the results of PD and other OPCW are correct and the standards applied to the analysis are beyond reproach.

It is not down to an individual test lab to confirm or deny this claim from Lavrov - it is down to OPCW.

a reply to: UKTruth

But that is not what Spiez are saying - they are confirming the results of PD and other OPCW are correct and the standards applied to the analysis are beyond reproach.

It is not down to an individual test lab to confirm or deny this claim from Lavrov - it is down to OPCW.

OK, so what about this ? :
https://__._/clinton-emails/emailid/18328

originally posted by: DrBobH
a reply to: UKTruth

But that is not what Spiez are saying - they are confirming the results of PD and other OPCW are correct and the standards applied to the analysis are beyond reproach.

It is not down to an individual test lab to confirm or deny this claim from Lavrov - it is down to OPCW.

Yes, they are confirming the existence of Novichok. They are NOT saying they did not find BZ. They are NOT saying that the OPCW included all the Spiez findings in their report. In other words they are NOT denying the claims the Russians are making.

a reply to: UKTruth

It’s not their job to deny it as much as you may like them too. Just as it was the job of PD to prove where the agent came from - just what it was. Their job was to confirm the original analysis which they did - not to comment on Russian propaganda. The analysis was confirmed by other testing labs.

From day one the UK had been consistent in its position, how many positions has the Kremlin taken so far? They can’t even make up their mind between themselves.

It is what it is and until OPCW confirm or deny the speculation then nobody can know for sure. That said people are speculating that it can’t be the Russians as it’d be too obvious re: selection of the agent. Equally likely they may have selected it for precisely that reason.

originally posted by: Fermy
a reply to: Xcathdra


Nope. Lethal is lethal, you don't die any less from a fatal occurrence no matter how it happens.

Lethal and fatal are two different words, with two different definitions.

Lethal is defined as "sufficient to cause death".

Less lethal implies a thing is comparatively less efficient to cause death than another thing. Thus, less lethal.

So no, it's not an either/or situation.

Don't let your personal understanding of a word mess you up.

a reply to: trollz

Yes. Russia Today says it wasn't Russia... okay...
I'm convinced.
Everybody else?

originally posted by: Xcathdra
RT as a source...

ok.

Where did the sample come from? Last I saw the UK was not releasing it to 3rd parties.

Languages...
If you look just below the video screen you will see a box that says original. Click it, select your native language and you will get the translation.

Seems to me the laboratories in the UK determined it was the Russian concoction of poisonous gas...

originally posted by: johnnysixguns

originally posted by: Fermy
a reply to: Xcathdra


Nope. Lethal is lethal, you don't die any less from a fatal occurrence no matter how it happens.

Lethal and fatal are two different words, with two different definitions.

Lethal is defined as "sufficient to cause death".

Less lethal implies a thing is comparatively less efficient to cause death than another thing. Thus, less lethal.

So no, it's not an either/or situation.

Don't let your personal understanding of a word mess you up.

www.dictionary.com...

www.dictionary.com...

Don't let your lack of understanding of language mess you up.

And your hypothesis about the door? It closed on your ass.

a reply to: Fermy

Yeah what about it?