Knife Control is here!

a reply to: Flyingclaydisk

That's part of the strategy, it's not ALL about making it harder for under 18's to get knives, read the PDF strategy. It's about education, protection and help for young people. And not having a weapon doesn't mean you're a "trembling spineless jello" HAVING one does.

a reply to: Kurokage

Except the overwhelming majority of US citizens throughout history never owned slaves.

The thing is, knife making is incredibly easy to do. It boggles the mind how laws against knives have meaning.

RE: the acid...if you guys had concealed carry, i can bet that there'd be far less of that nonsense going on. Similar to "the knockout game"...that kinda stuff doesn't happen where your victim might shoot back.

a reply to: Kurokage

It harkens back to an old saying here in the US...

"When guns are outlawed, only outlaws will have guns."

The more subtle meaning behind the face value of that saying is the idea that some law abiding citizens won't give up their guns and will become outlaws as a result. Hence the "more criminals" statement.

originally posted by: bigfatfurrytexan
Meanwhile, if i can shoot from across the room, then missing the first (or second) time may not be fatal for me.

Its a simple risk calculation.

Agreed, but I don't have the luxury of choice aside from my crossbow, knives, and bats.

a reply to: Skush

Education and help are great, and encouraged. I support this.

Legislation on access to an object just doesn't work, as noted above.

Lastly, I'm sorry about how you define 'spineless jello'. I have a much more pointed definition, and that is...a defenseless society wholly reliant on "someone else" to look ou for their well being and protection from thugs, murderers and thieves.

originally posted by: bigfatfurrytexan
a reply to: Kurokage

Except the overwhelming majority of US citizens throughout history never owned slaves.

The thing is, knife making is incredibly easy to do. It boggles the mind how laws against knives have meaning.

RE: the acid...if you guys had concealed carry, i can bet that there'd be far less of that nonsense going on. Similar to "the knockout game"...that kinda stuff doesn't happen where your victim might shoot back.

You posted about a culture difference so I was honest and talked about how I see America's 2nd amendment, a group of Rich slave owners needing to get a militia together to return their "property", is very different to how America is today. We still have a law about firing a bow on Saturdays, I just think certain laws should be up to date to reflect what is happening to society now not 200 or 800 years ago.

Adding guns to equation will only make things worse not better and there'd be far more nonsense going on, we'd have gangs on mopeds riding around thinking they were old school cowboys. Also does that mean you're going to be shooting everyone that drives by you on a moped because by the time you've been caught you'd have acid in your eyes and would shooting your firearm at random.

Knife making is easyish but kids would have to put their mobiles down to workout how to do that!!

originally posted by: Flyingclaydisk
a reply to: Kurokage

It harkens back to an old saying here in the US...

"When guns are outlawed, only outlaws will have guns."

The more subtle meaning behind the face value of that saying is the idea that some law abiding citizens won't give up their guns and will become outlaws as a result. Hence the "more criminals" statement.

As far as I'm aware, we don't have law abiding citizens thinking "Hold on" as they are about to leave their property, "Where is my 12" Zombie killing knife! Never know when Zombies will attack!"
So changing the law on under 18's buying certain types of knives isn't suddenly going to turn is all into criminals.

a reply to: Kurokage

Okay. You asked the question and I answered it.

I'm not talking about zombies, I'm talking about real life and you're going to extremes beyond reality.

I don't think we're going to agree, so I guess we'll have to agree to disagree.

In any case, I wasn't implying "everyone" with anything I've said. And, that's part of the problem, but I wish you and the UK well with your philosophy. I hope it works out for you. I don't think it will, but I hope it does.

originally posted by: EternalSolace
I wonder what will happen in the UK... when psychotic brits start filling box trucks with fertilizer and diesal. Will they ban box trucks, fertilizer, or diesal first?

Best of luck with buying that much fertilizer without a visit from the police... unless you're a farmer, I suppose. Maybe we need to ban farmers? Nobody needs an assault farmer. Only the police should have farms.

a reply to: Kurokage

Well, I can assure you of one thing...

I have an exponentially LESS chance of being hit in the face with acid by some punk on a stolen moped while walking down the street with a loaded fully automatic M-60 strapped across my chest than without!

And that's really the essence of the point. It's not about the tool, it's about the person AND their perception of my ability to defend myself. They use fear to perpetrate their evil and they will continue to behave like this irrespective of some law. I use a greater fear right back at them.

a reply to: EvillerBob

LMFAO! I know a couple of assault farmers!!!

a reply to: Kurokage

adding guns to the equation likely would not make it worse. It may give you new problems to deal with...but i've read several reports of shootings in London over the last few weeks. So it sounds like the law doesn't keep guns out of criminals hands as it is.

I mean...none of it matters. You guys, and us, are all trying to use different band aids. The problem is people, and a government that creates more stress than necessary to drive said people over the edge.

originally posted by: bigfatfurrytexan
a reply to: Kurokage

I mean...none of it matters. You guys, and us, are all trying to use different band aids. The problem is people, and a government that creates more stress than necessary to drive said people over the edge.

We can both agree on this statement.

a reply to: Flyingclaydisk

'm not talking about zombies, I'm talking about real life and you're going to extremes beyond reality.

I was talking about the types of knives that the government wants to restrict sales on to under 18's and make it harder to buy them.

I hope it works out for you. I don't think it will, but I hope it does.

Everything will be just fine. It's you's guys paranioa about guns and people taking them away that worries me.

walking down the street with a loaded fully automatic M-60 strapped.....

Till a swat team takes you down for owning and carring an illegal weapon.

Sad to see how far gone some people are. The reason murder rates are so high is because criminals, who break the law, do so without concern for the potential legal consequences of their actions. They are lawbreakers, no doubt about it. So it is ridiculous to believe that yet another law is going to prevent said criminal from simply ignoring the law and carrying it anyway.

Like their ridiculous gun-control policies, which work together to leave defenseless law abiding citizens at the mercy of vicious criminals. According to this Mayor, you don't have the right to defend yourself. Of course, the criminal may decide to allow them to live assuming they are cooperative and hand over their hard earned money while he/she does unthinkable things to their family. UK Citizens must ask themselves if they truly wish to be at the mercy of violent thugs and killers. Whether they are Citizens or mere subjects.

The logic is simple, they have already decided to ignore the law and murder somebody (a far more serious offense than unlawfully carrying a weapon). They will also decide to break the anti-weapon law (incidental, in comparison).

a reply to: Kurokage

Illegal weapon? Automatic weapons are perfectly legal for private ownership in the United States. You should read the NFA more carefully. For $200 BATFE tax stamp + a transferable machinegun you can own one too. Assuming you live in the United States, form a trust (speeds up the process, allows you to leave the firearm in your will, etc) and can pass a standard background check.

So there would be no "SWAT Team" showing up anywhere. Unless you were doing something actually illegal in the first place. In which case, the law makes no difference to the criminal. Their crime and violent act will be finished by time any LEO reaches you let alone those SWAT teams you claim will end the threat. What is the Citizen to do in the mean time? In the minutes it takes for first responders and eventually SRT guys, what stops the violent thug from killing us? Our own weapons. At least in a country with sensible gun laws, like ours.

Regardless, this is about knives. How easy knives can be made, common household items, etc. Those who follow the law once again won't carry it (while they would have otherwise, without committing any crimes or violence). Those who don't follow the law will continue to carry knives & firearms because they couldn't care less about your fancy new law.

In fact, they may even muse that this law & your anti-gun laws made their violent crime even easier. How this law made them feel secure in knowing that their prey wouldn't have a weapon to fight back. And since the police will only be responding to the crime, the best you can hope for is that they catch them after whatever violent crime has already been committed.

Despicable. Even more so is the apologists for these types of laws. I sincerely hope the United States takes a close look at the living conditions within the UK, and refers it to the appropriate International legal body for the crimes it forces its Citizens to endure at the hands of record levels of violent criminals in spite of extremely radical anti-weapon laws.

originally posted by: JBurns
a reply to: Kurokage

Despicable. Even more so is the apologists for these types of laws. I sincerely hope the United States takes a close look at the living conditions within the UK, and refers it to the appropriate International legal body for the crimes it forces its Citizens to endure at the hands of record levels of violent criminals in spite of extremely radical anti-weapon laws.

UK Homicide rate : 1.2
US homicide rate: 4.8

Crimes citizens are forced to endure indeed.

a reply to: ScepticScot

Blah. You quote crime rates, the vast majority of which are committed by gangs and career criminals against other gangs and career criminals. If gun control worked, the UK would have a 0.0% homicide rate. By restricting firearms, all you do is ensure more of those figures in your fancy statistics represent law abiding average citizens not dead thugs and criminals.

What about the victims? Should they be happy knowing police have at least a half-decent chance at catching the killer? rapist? home invader? No thanks. Looking at homicide rates out of context is dishonest. Gang violence and crime has nothing to do with law abiding citizens - we're only the intended victims of it. Our firearms have nothing to do with these crimes either, unless contributing to the homicide rate by defending ourselves against the criminal since justified homicide is also included in your figures.

Again, dead criminals account for a good number of your statistics. In the US, that shows us our pro-gun Rights work exactly how our brilliant founders intended. The number we really need to be looking at is innocent victims, law abiding citizens. Otherwise, it is clear we have a gang/crime problem not a gun problem. And with 340,000,000 population (compared to the UK's small pop.) the fact we're ONLY 4x the UK's rate is pretty astonishing..... really sinks the UK's anti-weapon laws and support the US 2A.

So there would be no "SWAT Team" showing up anywhere. Unless you were doing something actually illegal in the first place. In which case, the law makes no difference to the criminal. Their crime and violent act will be finished by time any LEO reaches you let alone those SWAT teams you claim will end the threat. God bless LE, but there will never be enough officers to stop an act of violence in time to prevent harm to the victim. What is the Citizen to do in the mean time? In the minutes it takes for first responders and eventually SRT guys, what stops the violent thug from killing us? Our own weapons. At least in a country with sensible gun laws, like ours.

edit on 4/9/2018 by JBurns because: (no reason given)

So laws don't work unless there are 0% crimes committed? You might want to try thinking about that one.

The UK has gangs and career criminals as well yet somehow manage to have only about a quarter of the murders. In fact even in the the US the vast majority of homicides are not gang related

And no the figure doesn't include justifiable homicides, even when in bold.

Double