Europa - Attempt a Landing There.

Hi fellow ATS Spacebuffs,

I've just been watching an excellent documentary on Netflix about the Voyager mission in the late 70's (and it's still going and will for billions of years with that golden record on it) called "The Farthest: Voyager in Space" (must watch) and Voyager has just arrived at Jupiter and lo and behold Europa appears as an iceworld with cracks and not pockmarked like Ganymede and Callisto - what discovery! Some of these moons house processes which remake their surfaces over time, in this case, a water world covered in ice. How utterly fascinating!

This immediately brought something to my mind as an idea for a mission for a robot probe of Europa, and I'm very curious as to what the latest mission plans are, if any, for this particular moon and if there are any updates on that, and, if there's a way of contacting NASA to.. poke them and try to prod them, even as a small lone voice.

This idea is simple, since Europa is comprised of a thick ice crust surrounding a salt water ocean with internal heat source (the core) which might very well have vents, and thus, life, based on the anagram of the Earth for example, with life teeming in the harshest of environments, and with no light as would be the case on Europa.

- Send a submarine probe, which would reside inside a heated metal sphere until it melts through the ice and enters the Europan OCEAN. Where there was darkness, there would be light.

Now, just consider the possibility of the breathtaking discovery of life in the Europan ocean filmed with high end cameras and EMF sensors, gas spectroscopy, the works, even the ability to retrieve things to then analyze in the submersed laboratory which is what the submersible probe would be at it's core.

Question: Is this possible? Can that ice even be melted through? I've heard somewhere that indeed it is doable.

What an intriguing possibility!

Why doesn't Elon Musk try to do something like this instead of sending people to their deaths and all manner of misery on Mars?

If we discovered life outside the sphere of Earth, that would be a momentous historical occassion and one that would enthrall the imagination of the world, and what it we saw a spider-like animal feeding near a vent or some such thing - could you imagine?!

What are your thoughts?

Should we attempt a landing on and penetration of Europa, and wouldn't it make the most logical body to investigate using the best of our current technology?

This would recharge NASA, and the United States if it was a US mission and it would impact the whole world in unforeseen ways.


Dear NASA, (if you're listening and I've seen evidence that you do)

Please build a submarine probe to land on Europa, and then melt down through the ice to the salt water ocean below.

Thank you.

AnkhMorpork, esq., March 27, 2018.

Because Planetary Colonialization is something that will get people more interested in space, then a hit or miss mission to find life on another planet. Imagine if the probe to Europa finds nothing, then to the average person the attempt was for naught. Sure scientists will be going crazy over all the data, but it's the public that drives NASA policy (if more people back space exploration, then politicians are more willing to get NASA more money).

You should watch some of the videos out there that talk to Astronauts about their thought on the movie "The Martian". It was sadly funny how they talked about how decisions in NASA are even more politically driven then they are in the movie.

a reply to: Guyfriday


True, but what a terrible lack of scientific imagination.

Someone will come along and update on where we're at relative to Europa, and even Io with it's volcanism, be interesting to pass by that world and get some closeups on the way of vulcanos larger than Earth's biggest.

And there surely would be heat and all kinds of materials arising from Europa's core due to the gravitational effects of Jupiter which is continually squeezing and compressing and releasing the core of Io.

Seeing from the POV of a submarine in another world's ocean - are you kidding me?!

It's got the potential for the biggest bang for the buck and without condemning people to a type of living hell with all this Mars talk.

I humbly disagree in terms of prioritization of mission scheduling.

Well, first there's the whole Jupiter radiation field thing that makes it difficult for a long-term mission to survive. Then there's the fact that a mission to Jupiter requires a lot more delta-v than one to Mars. All of the proposals to melt down through the ice involved nuclear power/heating which may be undesirable for obvious reasons if we suspect it is capable of life. Plus, we aren't really sure we know enough about the surface to land safely in the first place. And all this stuff is really expensive. Countries aren't that thrilled about spending even more money on this stuff. Especially since most countries seem to be broke even if they don't admit it.
So that's why it hasn't happened and nothing but missions involving fly-bys and orbiters are anywhere near fruition. Don't get me wrong, I'd love to see it happen in my lifetime. I'll drop a line and see if I can get any inside info for you on the Clipper mission status.

a reply to: RadioRobert


But, everyone is ready to go to Mars.. to make a dusty base there and try to build a biodome or something, how much would that cost?

The potential return is too high to ignore, and the idea of a submersible probe cruising around in the Europan ocean.. finding a heat source on the ocean floor....

I thought that scientific discovery is what it's all about..


Thank you. And for any info.

a reply to: AnkhMorpork

If there is water then there could be life. Especially when we get there and use the salt water to build fish farms.

They can bring and raise Algae for food. There is plenty of water for drinking after purification and for use in a myriad of ways.

I wouldnt send people down into depths of an unexplored alien ocean on principle. I would send people to float on the surface and use submersible drones.

Bring a nuclear reactor for heat. Use it to keep the lights on long after the crew goes home.

a reply to: AnkhMorpork


Scientific discovery should be, but sexy Mars Colony gets people excited. Most people don't see the value of the space program, and putting another robot somewhere doesn't matter to them. On the other hand a Martian Colony give the average person hope that they could go their, or if not them then someone they know. That dream of a future drives budget.

a reply to: AnkhMorpork

Yeah, do you know how much money is currently devoted to Mars? Not much. I mean a lot more than Europa, but it's closer, easier, and more bang for your buck. We know how to do it, so it is less risky. And project managers and bureauocrats and accountants hate risk. Also, potential colonization there is too hard to ignore.

I'd love a submersible mission on Europa-- it'd be amazing. I'm just pointing out why it isn't on the map.

Sent an email to someone tangentially involved in the Europa Clipper mission. If I get anything good, I'll pass it along.

a reply to: RadioRobert

I humbly disagree and think that the payoff would be higher from a scientific and discovery POV than landing people on the red planet.

Can you ask him about the ice melting submersible idea if you hear back from your friend? Thanks.

a reply to: tadaman


I wasn't suggesting sending PEOPLE there, too risky and costly and dangerous.

It would need to be nuclear powered, and that could pose a potential risk to the oceanic biosphere ie: if there is life.

The other idea would involve a tether to the surface for any submersible, which could be powered in some other way perhaps involving the magnetosphere of Jupiter itself?

It has a salt water ocean beneath the ice!

The probability of discovering off-Earth life in our solar system would be very high I think and thus the payoff would be huge and far reaching in our understanding of the evolutionary process of life in extreme environments.

It would basically prove that the universe is TEEMING with life. That would be a great discovery.

Weren't we warned about europa?

a reply to: burgerbuddy

"ALL THESE WORLDS ARE YOURS – EXCEPT EUROPA. ATTEMPT NO LANDINGS THERE".

originally posted by: kountzero
a reply to: burgerbuddy

"ALL THESE WORLDS ARE YOURS – EXCEPT EUROPA. ATTEMPT NO LANDINGS THERE".

Sounds like a think twice, don't it?

a reply to: AnkhMorpork

In the meantime there's a movie that can 'take you there':

Europa Report (2013)

a reply to: AnkhMorpork

They are already planning your heat drill/submarine idea.

I watched a documentary a while ago about it, they had a couple different teams working on different ideas. One was a robot that floated and drove on the underside of the ice, very cool stuff.
youtu.be...

originally posted by: AnkhMorpork
It would basically prove that the universe is TEEMING with life. That would be a great discovery.

Unless we happened to find life that isn't DNA based, which would be more supportive of what you say, I wouldn't go that far. It would far more likely be evidence of a localized (possibly cometary or collision based) panspermia within our solar system. Not definitive proof of a universe teeming with life. Although I do think there is probably other life out there, somewhere, at some time.

a reply to: burgerbuddy

Oh god whyyyyy buddy!

originally posted by: auroraaus
a reply to: burgerbuddy

Oh god whyyyyy buddy!

a reply to: BelowLowAnnouncement

Tardygardas (water bears) or similar creatures . Would not be surprised if you find them there or elsewhere!

originally posted by: auroraaus
a reply to: BelowLowAnnouncement

Tardygardas (water bears) or similar creatures . Would not be surprised if you find them there or elsewhere!

Indeed, mushroom/fungus spores and tardigrades would both be good candidates for types of life (if not those then things like those) suitable for panspermia in my opinion.