My Problem with Gun control in America

My first problem I have with the current gun control movement: No one is talking about disarming the police. You can't disarm the populace and not disarm the police. It's idiocy to give up your guns when the people who continue to kill us will still be armed.

My second problem: No one is talking about what would happen if the 2nd amendment was rescinded. I doubt we'd see police going door to door to collect everyones guns. It'd probably be a grace period where everyone has a certain amount of time to turn in their guns, then you'd be prosecuted for possessing them.

And that's my main problem right there. By banning guns you'd be creating an entirely new criminal class. A class of people who are nothing but food to the prison industrial complex. Think the war on drugs part 2, with everything that comes along with it. Families destroyed, more of our rights flying out the window, aggressive law enforcement and more lives destroyed than all school shootings combined.

There's only one government, and they're using both sides to create a misinformed, afraid populace. And I can't in good conscience support something that will continue to lead to the destruction of low income communities like where I'm from.

Now, I'm not saying all gun control is bad. Maybe there do need to be some changes in some areas. I support the recent march against gun violence as well as my right to be armed. I don't really have any answers, I just know that criminalizing people and feeding them into the system will only make things worse.

Just some thoughts I had.

Treat guns like weed.

It's really that simple.

originally posted by: RomeByFire
Treat guns like weed.

It's really that simple.

Oh if only guns killed as many people as weed does (which is like, zero, right?).

originally posted by: RomeByFire
Treat guns like weed.

It's really that simple.

I believe education is the key to anything that can be dangerous when misused. Guns, drugs, prostitution, what have you.

Taking freedom away to protect ourselves from ourselves has never worked. It only makes everything more dangerous in the long run.

a reply to: underwerks

For what it’s worth, I’m not on the “ban guns” bandwagon. I see other countries that allow guns that don’t have the rate of gun violence we have. We’re obviously doing something wrong, though.

originally posted by: kaylaluv
a reply to: underwerks

For what it’s worth, I’m not on the “ban guns” bandwagon. I see other countries that allow guns that don’t have the rate of gun violence we have. We’re obviously doing something wrong, though.

I agree with you. There's definitely something wrong in the American psyche. Depression is at an all time high, and more people are dying from trying to numb themselves than from car accidents.

I just don't believe that giving the police a new reason to put me under suspicion is a solution. I believe any good intentions concerning gun control will be perverted and misused by the authorities the first chance they get.

a reply to: kaylaluv

It's our bulls# culture.

At this point, no laywer in the country can give you a ballpark estimate of how many laws you are expected to follow at any given moment.

there are millions of entirely redundant laws, and every one of them is up to interpretation based on professional arguments.

My problem with gun control?
So far, it hasn't done anything but increase the cost of firearms to the average law abiding citizen, and made their lives inconvenient.

Unfortunately, there's no common sense anymore. Even if we redacted all these restrictive silly laws that aren't doing anything, all it would take is one more nut to do something that cold have potentially been stopped by random coincidence had we not redacted those laws for a 100% justification to put them all back into place, plus more.

Of course, it's only the anti-gun laws that seem to get any traction. Where I live, there's an old, old old law on the books that states men over a certain age have to bring their shotguns to church.
Nobody ever got rid of the old law, so technically it's still a law.
Think if I showed up to a church in the big city with a shotgun on my back it would work out well for me? there could be ten more, newer laws banning it.
Damned if you do, damned if you don't.

I think you are spot on and expressed the paradoxical nature of it all very clearly.

I'm all for a world without guns were it possible. Since it's not there's not much to debate in any sort of coherent or logical manner.

Those who would dominate societies--even the world--seem to be doing, sadly, a damn good job of it.

The logic of "When guns are outlawed only outlaws will have guns" seems inescapable.

originally posted by: kaylaluv
a reply to: underwerks

For what it’s worth, I’m not on the “ban guns” bandwagon. I see other countries that allow guns that don’t have the rate of gun violence we have. We’re obviously doing something wrong, though.

That's the sad part. Heartbreakingly sad. History tells us what happens to empires as karma comes home to roost and society breaks down.

The metaphorical big gal is warming her pipes up for a shattering High C it seems.

originally posted by: The GUT
I think you are spot on and expressed the paradoxical nature of it all very clearly.

I'm all for a world without guns were it possible. Since it's not there's not much to debate in any sort of coherent or logical manner.

Those who would dominate societies--even the world--seem to be doing, sadly, a damn good job of it.

The logic of "When guns are outlawed only outlaws will have guns" seems inescapable logic.

It's too ingrained in our culture at this point. I completely understand the sentiment in wanting to get rid of guns, it seems like a no-brainer to a lot of people. And I get that.

But at this point, banning guns will only lead to more problems, social and otherwise. The power we give away will eventually be used against us. That's the nature of power.

originally posted by: RomeByFire
Treat guns like weed.

It's really that simple.

On second thought, guns probably shouldn't be as easy to get as weed is.

a reply to: underwerks

Your logic is a bit flawed.

First, the police are armed because the criminals they must confront are possibly armed as well.

Police do not carry guns simply to be “killing us”. If that was part of their job, there would be far more us dead by now.

Second, “WE” would not be “creating an entirely new criminal class”.

“They”, namely those individuals who would insist on retaining their weapons, AFTER whatever grace period to surrender them had expired, would be responsible for identifying themselves, by their choice, as criminals.

Just as thieves, murderers and drug dealers choose to violate the laws against those acts.

Well this seems like a real smart argument. So, we need to be able to take up arms against the cops... that always works out well. The whole "tyrannical government" argument is so outdated, no longer applicable (never mind that the government wouldn't even need to fire one shot to dismantle the populous if they wanted to), and has been terribly reinterpreted by activist judges.

originally posted by: Bhadhidar
a reply to: underwerks

Your logic is a bit flawed.

First, the police are armed because the criminals they must confront are possibly armed as well.

Police do not carry guns simply to be “killing us”. If that was part of their job, there would be far more us dead by now.

Second, “WE” would not be “creating an entirely new criminal class”.

“They”, namely those individuals who would insist on retaining their weapons, AFTER whatever grace period to surrender them had expired, would be responsible for identifying themselves, by their choice, as criminals.

Just as thieves, murderers and drug dealers choose to violate the laws against those acts.

I find it a bit disingenuous to lump drug users into the same category as thieves and murderers. The attitude that "law is the law" and "criminals are criminals" is a big problem. All crimes aren't created equal.

"WE" would be creating a new criminal class if we allowed a law to pass that prohibited owning guns. Feeding the machine with new blood isn't a solution. You can't criminalize something that's been legal for over 200 years that a lot of people see as an unalienable right and expect everyone to just go along with it.

The goal is less lives destroyed and less people in cages. There has to be a way to protect people from gun violence without giving the government more control over us.

originally posted by: underwerks

originally posted by: RomeByFire
Treat guns like weed.

It's really that simple.

On second thought, guns probably shouldn't be as easy to get as weed is.

Conservative republicans preach about "personal freedoms, individuals responsibility," whilst also preaching about executing drug dealers and how cannabis should be outlawed because it's potential of misuse.

Like I said - treat guns the same way conservatives treat weed, "good people don't own firearms," am I right, or am I right?

originally posted by: okrian
Well this seems like a real smart argument. So, we need to be able to take up arms against the cops... that always works out well. The whole "tyrannical government" argument is so outdated, no longer applicable (never mind that the government wouldn't even need to fire one shot to dismantle the populous if they wanted to), and has been terribly reinterpreted by activist judges.

That's only part of it.

The main argument is how a large portion of our society would be criminalized if gun ownership was deemed illegal. We've already seen how that works in the disastrous war on drugs.

Unless you're into enriching criminals and leaving people defenseless against the illegal weapons criminals will still carry. Because making things illegal almost guarantees they'll be easier to get. At least now there are background checks. Make guns illegal, and all you'll have to have is the money to buy whatever gun you want, and you can get it.

I think there's a disconnect where people don't realize how big the underground economy in this country actually is, and what would happen if you flooded it with guns because they become illegal.

originally posted by: RomeByFire

originally posted by: underwerks

originally posted by: RomeByFire
Treat guns like weed.

It's really that simple.

On second thought, guns probably shouldn't be as easy to get as weed is.

Conservative republicans preach about "personal freedoms, individuals responsibility," whilst also preaching about executing drug dealers and how cannabis should be outlawed because it's potential of misuse.

Like I said - treat guns the same way conservatives treat weed, "good people don't own firearms," am I right, or am I right?

Ahhh, I see what you did there. Haha.

The obvious flaw in gun control is people have been turned in to criminals with the stroke of a pen.

And of course violating due process and civil liberty of every single person living in this country.

If YOU can't see that YOUR part of the problem.

originally posted by: neo96
The obvious flaw in gun control is people have been turned in to criminals with the stroke of a pen.

And of course violating due process and civil liberty of every single person living in this country.

If YOU can't see that YOUR part of the problem.

Probably the only thing I've ever agreed with you on. As a society I think we're in desperate need of things being decriminalized, not the other way around.

Enough with creating slaves for the for-profit prison industry.