Russia and the Skripal Assasination Attempt.

Russia and the Skripal Assasination Attempt.

So, I know another thread on the attempted assassination of Sergei Skripal but I think it’s about time we really get into why it is believed that the Russian State was behind this assassination attempt. Let me be very clear that the word believed is very important because although I think that so far all evidence is pointing to this having be the action of the Russian state as it stands this is still the subject of an ongoing investigation and until such time as the evidence is heard in a court of law we cannot be sure. That is to say that I remain open to the idea that this might not have been the Russian state however so far the evidence is all pointing to the Russian state and I think it’s important to outline exactly why that is because their seems to be some confusion and misunderstanding around some of this.

As I see it there are a few big points to make that all point to Russian state involvement, in this thread I will go over each of what I believe to be the main points and I will try to keep this as concise as possible sticking just to reported facts.

Novichok- The means


Let’s start with the poison itself, It has been reported that Sergei Skripal was poisoned using a nerve agent called Novichok a chemical that was created by the former Soviet Union as a fourth generation chemical weapon it was designed to avoid detection by weapons inspectors and bypass the usual defences against nerve weapons in a top-secret Soviet program codenamed FOLIANT. This program was exposed by Russian defectors back in 1992 where Novichok was first publicaly mentioned as a highly sophisticated nerve agent. Then in 1999 the United States along with the Organisation for the Prohibition of Chemical Weapons (OPCW) went to a chemical weapons plant in Uzbekistan to decommission a old Soviet facility that had been creating the nerve agent. Then in 2009 the formal for Novichok was made public when Russian scientist vill Mirzayanov released a book exposing Russian chemical weapons projects. Finally in 2017 Russia reported that they had destroyed all Soviet era chemical weapons.

On the forth of March 2018 however, Sergei Skripal and his daughter were found on a park bench in Salisbury after having been poisoned using the Novichok agent. This was the first time a nerve agent has been used in Europe since world war 2.

The question remains however, how do we know it was the Russians after all they have said that they destroyed all weapons last year and the Russian state has staunchly denied all accusations?. The UK has said that the police investigating this attack, Counter-Terrorism Command (SO15) had samples sent to the UKs Defence Scientist and Technology Laboratory at Porton Down for analysis who concluded that the substance used was Novichok and that it originated from Russia. How they done this remains a mystery as the UK government has always been very tight lipped about giving specifics however it has been reported that scientists at Porton Down have a large library of substances they can compare to establish what chemical was used and its origin.

So that is the first bit of evidence really that this was Russia, the UKs lab at proton down said it was Novichok ant it was off Russian origin. This has been backed up however by several other sources. The NewScientist for instance reported that:

The use of a Novichok in the attack on the Skripals makes it highly likely that Russia was involved, because no one else knows how to make them, says John Lamb at Birmingham City University, UK. “The Novichok family was specifically created by Russia to be unknown in the West and as such it’ll be one of their most tightly guarded secrets,” he says.

According to another Report:

The nerve agent novichok was developed and produced in Shikhany, home of a military research establishment in central Russia, according to a chemical weapons expert. Hamish de Bretton-Gordon said the information was contained in a report submitted several years ago by Russia to the international body that monitors chemical weapons, the Organisation for the Prohibition of Chemical Weapons (OPCW)

Even the man who is being credited as being the inventor of the agent,Vil Mirzayanov, has also came out and said this could only have been Russia:



So in summary then on this point, the UKs weapons experts have concluded this was Novichok of Russian origin, other chemical weapons have said it was Russian the OPWC have said it was Russian and the guy who helped invent it has said its of Russian origin.

Russia's history of Assassination

This would be my second point as to why I believe that this could have been an act of state sponsored assassination by the Russian state. Now it is widely accepted that Russia are not the only ones who have carried out assassinations however there have been several incidents in the last decade or so of people who have either been flat out assassinated or have died in highly suspicious circumstances who were known to oppose the Putin regime

There are lots of examples of Russian killings.

Alexander Litvinenko, killed in 2006 following poisoning by polonium 210, is probably the most notable he had accused the Russian government of blowing up an apartment block and Putin of being a paedophile among other accusations. However, what is most disturbing is that when you start to research this further there have been lots of suspicious deaths in the UK that have been suspected of being linked to Russian assassins. Indeed it has been reported that US Intelligence Services passed on a list of 14 people in the UK it believed had been assassinated by either the Russian state or entities connected to the Russian state. These include a Russian diplomat named Igor Ponomarev who died suspiciously two days before Litvinenko whose body was taken back to Russia before there was any chance to fully investigate. There was also Daniel McGrory a journalist for the times who was investigating Litvinenko's death who it is also suspected may have met his end thanks to the Russian state.
yon

Actually there is just so much on this rabbit hole that it should probably be a thread unto itself, there is a very dark underworld of Russian deaths in the UK, thats not even getting into the likes of Boris Berezovsky. (**NOTE; I am not exaggerating when writing this thread up I was basically overwhelmed with information regarding this whole rabbit hole**)

Then even in Russia itself there have been lots of killing such as Anna Politkoska or the shooting of Boris Nemtsov.

Honestly this entire subject of Russia’s recent history of assassination is just such a massive topic it reads like an old bond novel and I would highly recommend anyone who is interested in it to read further (The links above are a good start for anyone interested). The point in relation to the Skripal case though is quite simple, Russia have demonstrated time and time again they are willing to conduct these assassinations, contrary to what some have said they have no qualms about how they go about doing it.

Motive.


So why do it?

Why would Russia want to assassinate Skripal that’s the next point I want to make because I do believe that they have the motivation for this. As stated above the attempt on his life is just part of a long list of names of people in the UK who have been targeted by Russian interests, I believe that this may be part of the reason behind Skripal being targeted. It is possible he had some further information that the Russians did not want released.

I also think this was done as it is a demonstration of Putin’s power, it sends out a message that Russia can get you at anytime, anywhere.

It could also just be straight up r evenge. Skripal was caught spying in Russia, he worked for the GRU and it is claimed he was handing over the identities of Russian spies to British intelligence. He admitted to this and was sentence to prison in Russia and only released as part of a prisoner swap in 2010.

There has also been speculation that this may be connected to the current election in Russia, nobody believes that Putin is at risk of losing however what could be a problem for him is a low turnout. Because so many of Putin’s base of support now believe he will win no matter what it has been reported there was a concern a low turnout could see him facing a smaller margin in his win. As such some have argued Putin has ordered this attack to reach out to his base and create a feeling that Russia and Putin is under attack and encourage them to get out and vote for Putin.

Another possible motivation that I think is also worth considering is the possibility that it was his daught er Yulla who was actually the target and while I think this could be unlikely it cannot be discounted.

Finally another interesting aspect of a possible motivation could be the link between Skripal and Christopher steel the author of the "Trump dossier". I will not get into too much detail on this just now other than to point out that Orbis have denied Skripal worked with them.

In summary I would say that I personally do not necessary believe all of the motivations above are why there was an attempt on this man’s life all I intended to point out was that there are reasons that Russia might have wanted to have Skripal assassinated.

International Agreement.


My final point and probably a good place sum up this thread before it becomes a even longer wall of text.

So far everyone has pretty much came out to say the Russian state was behind this attack, France, Germany and America have all came out to condemn Russia for this attack. The OPWC have also been involved and it has been reported that the UK has also send them samples of nerve agent to gain independent verification of what is already widely believed.

So far Russia continues to deny any knowledge or involvement in the attempt on Skripal's life. In a strange turn just a few hours ago it was revealed that Russias Deputy Foreign minister has denied that Russia or the Soviet Union ever produced Novichok:

MOSCOW — Deputy Foreign Minister Sergei Ryabkov said on Thursday that neither Russia nor the Soviet Union had run a program to develop the 'Novichok' nerve gas which Britain says was used to poison a former double agent,

This news is quite obviously completely at odds with what is known about the stub stand and demonstrates that not only is Russia denying any involvement in this case but is actively lying about it.

.....

Anyway, the point of this thread was to demonstrate why it is believed that Russia was behind this assassination attempt and I hope that going forward the conversation will continue along those lines. As I said at the start, I do not believe it is possible to say for sure that Russia was behind all of this however when looked at in the context of everything we know about Novichok and the Russian state it seems reasonable to mark them as the prime suspects.

Really good read thanks for all that very informative too. If Russia says they destroyed their chemical weapons why wouldn't we believe them.

I mean America still has their chemical weapons.
www.google.ca...

Apperently they never joined the treaty banning their use.
en.m.wikipedia.org...

These are just simple google searches however how much credence they have who can say.
a reply to: OtherSideOfTheCoin

originally posted by: Athetos
Really good read thanks for all that very informative too. If Russia says they destroyed their chemical weapons why wouldn't we believe them.

I mean America still has their chemical weapons.
www.google.ca...

a reply to: OtherSideOfTheCoin

That is a exceedingly good question.

I think its were the debates about this assassination attempt all fundamentally come from, do you believe Russia or not?

It is up to individuals to make that assessment of weather or not the truth the Russian government and I cannot say that they have lied about getting rid of all their chemical weapons. What I can say is that the comments today from their Deputy Foreign minister that the Russian Federation or Soviet Union never even produced Novichok is a flat out lie and that can be quite easily demonstrated when you look at the history of the weapon. So right away I can say that I know they have already lied about something in regards to this so whats to say they won't keep on lying about it.

The Russian state has told lies in the past, like all governments so I would turn the question on its head and ask why you believe them (if you do) when they say that they destroyed all chemical weapons.

I very much agree. I am pretty untrusting in all governments ability to tell the whole unbiased truth. It's a tangled web out there for sure.


a reply to: OtherSideOfTheCoin

Just a few questions if you don't mind me asking.

1) If revenge was the motivation, why wait so long to assassinate him? If he flipped a decade ago, does it not stand to reason to kill him while his usefulness to the British government is still fresh?

2) If secrecy is the motivation, why wait so long to assassinate him? Why release him from prison, wait ten years, then cause an international incident by killing him.

3) Russians are not as stupid as we like to give them credit for. Why would they use a "secret-squirrel" nerve agent that can be readily googled?

4) What do you think the proper response should be for the use of a chemical weapon/nerve agent by a foreign power inside another sovereign nation? Invasion? Tac-nuke strike? You have international condemnation in you pocket, Putin has said he will defend Russia with nukes, what is your next move?

a reply to: 200Plus

1) If revenge was the motivation, why wait so long to assassinate him? If he flipped a decade ago, does it not stand to reason to kill him while his usefulness to the British government is still fresh?

Revenge is one of several motivations, like I said I don't believe all of the motivations I listed my intention was only to illustrate that there are many possible reasons.

With this one we can only speculate, he might not have still be "fresh" but its possible to speculate he still had some inside information regarding the Russian state.

It could simply have been to send a message that no mater how long it takes we will get you.

I think this also crosses over with your second question so I will skip over it for now.

3) Russians are not as stupid as we like to give them credit for. Why would they use a "secret-squirrel" nerve agent that can be readily googled?

I don't know, why would they use polonium 210, why would they just straight up shoot a guy outside the Kremlin?

They have no MO for this type of thing.

4) What do you think the proper response should be for the use of a chemical weapon/nerve agent by a foreign power inside another sovereign nation? Invasion? Tac-nuke strike? You have international condemnation in you pocket, Putin has said he will defend Russia with nukes, what is your next move?

I don't think that this would justify any kind of military action.

I think a proportional response would be reasonable and to me that would be expelling Russian diplomates (a few spies is a joke), I think pursuing the assassins and I also think that the UK should be going after the finances of Putin and his associates.

I am unsure about a cyber attack, right now I think that for that to have any meaning would probably put lives in danger in Russia and would not be proportionate.

Brilliant thread, well wrttien, informative and acccurate - ATS needs more of this.

originally posted by: OtherSideOfTheCoin

It is up to individuals to make that assessment of weather or not the truth the Russian government and I cannot say that they have lied about getting rid of all their chemical weapons. What I can say is that the comments today from their Deputy Foreign minister that the Russian Federation or Soviet Union never even produced Novichok is a flat out lie and that can be quite easily demonstrated when you look at the history of the weapon. So right away I can say that I know they have already lied about something in regards to this so whats to say they won't keep on lying about it.

The Russian state has told lies in the past, like all governments so I would turn the question on its head and ask why you believe them (if you do) when they say that they destroyed all chemical weapons.

This part is one of their lies - the Uzbek plains were deomissioned - this strain was made in GOSNIIOKhT in south Mosow - however a 'patsy' or guilty person called Rink will probably be named soon as he allegedly used the same agent to assasinate business associates in the uk - was jailed for year after handing the agent back to FSB (he'd dtored it in a garage) ---willl be public in 30 mins or so: just hit newqsreels.

Someone is framing Russia? Again? People are still falling for it?

Well then, this time is MUST be true. I say the proper reaction is a full on war. We have already tried sanctions and the Ruskies just laugh at us all the while Putin is receiving more and more support from the citizens and probably gaining world wide support outside of the elites.

This is getting really tiresome and repetitive. Our government is like the petulant child, laying on the floor throwing a tantrum. So if we just give them the war they are after, will they finally shut the &%#$ up?

a reply to: ClovenSky

Well I have not seen any evidence yet to suggest that Russia is being framed in anyway to suggest this could be a false flag. I am not saying that its impossible to say that Russia is being framed or that it wasn't the action of another state or group only that I have not seen anything that for me would prove or reasonably suggest that

Also I do not think anyone is thinking about any kind of military action.

a reply to: OtherSideOfTheCoin

Where else could this be going? More sanctions? I think we are past that point.

I just find this whole episode to be funny and disgusting at the same time. I also find it very hypocritical that the usa is accusing others on these methods. Maybe for mental health, it is time to just ignore this entire fairy tale, just like what is becoming necessary to do with partisan politics.

The elites dribble out BS left and right, then the masses gobble it up without asking questions. I would love to see the real story on this situation. I suspect it goes all the way back to WWI.

But the payment will not come from the people that are pushing this story, it will come from the sheep in blood and tears. Just like it has always been. We never learn.

It has already been shown (in the other thread) that America helped clean out the Novichok facility when it was decommissioned. So America has a stock of Russian made Novichok.
Again, why his daughter as well. Was she just collateral damage? If the Russians wanted her they just had to wait till she went back home as she was only visiting.
The overall feeling I get from it is how is Russia so inept at assassination? Come on, they were onto a winner with the Umbrella weapon. Why change their MO?
Another scenario that no one wants to acknowledge is the Russian "mafia" business people, nothing to do with the Russian government bbuuuttt?
Did Skripal have the nerve agent himself? Did his daughter bring it him from Russia? Maybe to use himself. People are not looking at the time line. This nerve agent starts working, after exposure, within 30 seconds and within 2 minutes severe symptoms. Now think on this. They have found traces of the substance in a restaurant, where they had a meal. Then they went to a pub where they found traces there. THEN they went to the bench where they were found.
That is a significant amount of time. Some people have said they were only exposed to a small amount. Come on, come on, this is supposed to be the most dangerous nerve agent going and they had enough on them to leave traces in 3 different places.
For you conspiracy buffs here's another one. In magic sleight of hand the saying goes look at the left hand then you wont see what the right hand is doing. Isn't this a nice debacle of a story to distract away from the debacle that is turning out on brexit. Think on that one.

originally posted by: crayzeed
It has already been shown (in the other thread) that America helped clean out the Novichok facility when it was decommissioned. So America has a stock of Russian made Novichok.
.

Incorrect technically Nov-5 and Nov-7 were present there and there is no evidence the US smuggled a stock under high decontam scrutiny.

Plus neither Nov-5 or Nov-7 were used in this attempt. The agent in question is produced just outside Moscow to this day.

The standard of 'journalism' has been terrible, hence so much confusion - a lot of incorrect/innacurate and uninformed coverage has been on the press as to the nature of such agents and details - with many copy and pasting the Wikipedia claim without reading the full report on that clean-up/alleged contamination area.

Right.. Because their stupid enough to use a chemical that is only known to Russia? Only available in Russia and has Russian footprints all over?
This isnt America .. They have to at least still try a little

Come on .. You cant be THAT naive

How people paint Putin on here.. And he doesnt know how to kill people unless it leads straight back to him? The FSG arent that inept.

But russia!

Because tmTheresa may said so. Bad Russia

It must be true.

:stfu

a reply to: OtherSideOfTheCoin

I admit I've leaned the other way and have been highly suspicious that Russia could be so stupid.

One point I briefly dwelt on was this recent and sudden proclamation of nuclear powered cruise missiles. Unstoppable ICBMs and hyper-sonic vehicles, by Putin, himself.

I considered that bragging to be a little over the top. Likely hyperbole. Then why now? The thought struck that he was up to something, something big. Using his rhetoric to instill fear so as to avoid retaliation. I promptly forgot about it.

Now, perhaps, these recent events are the reason behind that bragging. (Hopefully that this isn't just the first move on Putin's part and only a part of a grander gambit.)

All in all, I'm leaning back the other way and am inclined to put this on his shoulders. Especially when one adds in Georgia, Crimea and the Ukraine.

Add in this 'coalition' between Russia, Iran and Syria and I'm beginning to believe Putin is only a little smarter than Adolf. Not much more so than I gave him credit for.

I's not a case closed and probably never will get to that point before historians sort it out decades down the road. If there are any left to sort it out......

originally posted by: samuelsson
Right.. Because their stupid enough to use a chemical that is only known to Russia? Only available in Russia and has Russian footprints all over?
This isnt America .. They have to at least still try a little

Come on .. You cant be THAT naive

How people paint Putin on here.. And he doesnt know how to kill people unless it leads straight back to him? The FSG arent that inept.

:stfu

Naive? Inept?

I think someone here is trying very hard to be disingenuous.

If you believe that you are “above the law”, and you effectively wield the full power of a state as powerful as Russia, what does it matter to you if not only the weapons of assasination, but the murders themselves as well can be placed at your feet?

It is not as if Putin need fear that the local police will come knocking on HIS door in the middle of the night to arrest him.

They’d likely be shot to death if they tried.

And it’s not like Putin has much to fear from any reasonable international response to his actions, even if proven; He controls Russia, his control is only strengthening, and Russia is far too powerful a country, both in terms of military and economic might, to be seriously punished.

In point if fact, in his push (or should that be “putsch”?) to consolidate his power over, and control of, the Russian state (which I’m certain he’s selling to the Russian people as “Making Russia Great Again!”), the “shock and awe” these murders generate, and the fear his opponents must be feeling, can only serve to boost Putin’s reputation.

It’s brutal, it’s effective, and, to Western sensibilities, it may seem uncouth and even savage.

But it is very Russian.

Why would they use Novichok if they new it would be traced back to them? Why would Skripal be poisoned in another country, and not while he was stuck and defenceless in a Moscow jail for high treason?

This reeks of a frame job.

originally posted by: crayzeed
It has already been shown (in the other thread) that America helped clean out the Novichok facility when it was decommissioned. So America has a stock of Russian made Novichok.
Again, why his daughter as well. Was she just collateral damage? If the Russians wanted her they just had to wait till she went back home as she was only visiting.
The overall feeling I get from it is how is Russia so inept at assassination? Come on, they were onto a winner with the Umbrella weapon. Why change their MO?
Another scenario that no one wants to acknowledge is the Russian "mafia" business people, nothing to do with the Russian government bbuuuttt?
Did Skripal have the nerve agent himself? Did his daughter bring it him from Russia? Maybe to use himself. People are not looking at the time line. This nerve agent starts working, after exposure, within 30 seconds and within 2 minutes severe symptoms. Now think on this. They have found traces of the substance in a restaurant, where they had a meal. Then they went to a pub where they found traces there. THEN they went to the bench where they were found.
That is a significant amount of time. Some people have said they were only exposed to a small amount. Come on, come on, this is supposed to be the most dangerous nerve agent going and they had enough on them to leave traces in 3 different places.
For you conspiracy buffs here's another one. In magic sleight of hand the saying goes look at the left hand then you wont see what the right hand is doing. Isn't this a nice debacle of a story to distract away from the debacle that is turning out on brexit. Think on that one.

Since it is a powder (which has been disclosed in other news articles), it could be in anything from a box of Turkish Delight to Sherbet Dabs or Lemon Coolers. Even a bouquet of flowers. We were told a single drop of nerve agent would be lethal - that's just powder dissolved in water. They have found powder on door handles and the various places they had been. Even with regular food items, they'll leave powder everywhere.

They'd use Novichok knowing it could be traced back to them because they've assassinated other Russians in the UK and it's obviously been them many times before and they don't care.

In fact they want people to know because they are sending a very clear message. If you betray us, we will kill you in the most horrifying ways imaginable.