Elephant trophy hunting, and Trump’s confusing positions on it, explained

a reply to: introvert

hunting is a mental illness..

comments like that is why you arent taken seriously.. on ats or in real life

Trophy hunters are the lowest form of life on this planet, I have more respect for cockroaches.

i say there are great powers we do not perceive and we have to get over ourselves in order to find common ground

since when did hate and ridicule get us anywhere

i will overcome any penalties imposed upon me

a reply to: howtonhawky

And when did humans decide they know whats best for animals? and who gave 'humans' the power to decide they are the ones who should properly "manage" Animals?

"Studies show" whatever they want them to show and are usually biased

a reply to: XAnarchistX

GOD

a reply to: howtonhawky

Not....sure....if.....serious

a reply to: XAnarchistX

lol
yep serious

i do believe and i also see many have taken the same verses i use to petition for conservation and they use them to destroy claiming god said they could so my personal opinion on the subject will be construed either way depending on the desire of the reader.

i think the book is right but the understanding is often abused

i do try to understand all positions even those of anarcocapitolist and anarchist

a reply to: SlapMonkey

Obama was just a constitutional lawyer,
Why would you expect him to know anything about the constitution or the law.
He's the smartest man in the room if I remember correctly.....lol

a reply to: SlapMonkey

No, it's not "out-of-line," as you subjectively claim. I don't believe you that you've done the math, at all. And you pretend that it's always a big investment? Let's see...

By all means, let's hear your anecdotal story.

Here in KY, I know many, many people who own enough land where they can hunt on it. They have hunting rifles that still work passed down from their parents or grandparents. Ammo is plentifully available and relatively cheap. Deer stands and hunting blinds can last on properties for years, if not decades.

Cool. Notice how your story included very specific elements that make it potentially cost effective for those specific people? The land is already owned, the firearms handed-down, etc.

How does that help the average person that does not own land, has to buy their own firearms, ammo, trucks, licenses, etc?

Let's not pretend like getting some meat from god-knows-where in a grocery store is a better and cheaper option. Hell, a good rib-eye steak can cost more than the additional deer permit that allows for two more whole entire deer. And if you can process your own deer (which isn't really that difficult, just time-consuming), that's a cost that you can avoid, too.

What about the rest of the costs associated with hunting? How about mileage, gas, and most importantly....time? Not sure how much your time is worth but I can make more money in a hour than I would save in an hour hunting for my own meat.

But, yes, that must be "out-of-line" with grocery-store options...man, that's laughable. Of course, I will concede that the fiscal benefit probably differs greatly from state-to-state.

Differ from state to state and once you consider all of the things you did not mention, the picture becomes even clearer.

A. Because a doctor's opinion is irrelevant to comparing nutritional levels of standard vitamins and minerals between farm-raised and wild-hunted meats of the same species.

And your's or mine is relevant how?

B. Because most nutritionists agree that meat is good for you, but different types of meats should be eaten in different portion sizes and at different intervals.

Most? Have a source for that?

C. Because nutritional value has no bearing on opinions of people concerning the health benefits of a certain food. You can measure the nutritional value of corrugated cardboard, but that doesn't mean that it should be eaten.

You're the one that brought up that aspect. Not sure why you did if you are going to dismiss the issue outright as being a matter of opinion.

You're a silly goose, you know that?

Don't shoot me and eat me...bro.

originally posted by: Jiggly
a reply to: introvert

hunting is a mental illness..

I believe it is a mental illness and makes no logical sense, considering the availability and relative costs of food these days.

comments like that is why you arent taken seriously.. on ats or in real life

On ATS, I couldn't care less and you do not know who I am in real life, so it would seem you are talking out of your ass.

originally posted by: introvert
a reply to: SlapMonkey

By all means, let's hear your anecdotal story.

Cool. Notice how your story included very specific elements that make it potentially cost effective for those specific people? The land is already owned, the firearms handed-down, etc.

How does that help the average person that does not own land, has to buy their own firearms, ammo, trucks, licenses, etc?

Oh, so you bitch about my specifics, then counter that with citing someone who has to start from scratch and purchase everything all at once in order to hunt?

If I didn't know any better, I'd say you are playing silly reindeer games. If so, I call being Rudolph.

What about the rest of the costs associated with hunting? How about mileage, gas, and most importantly....time? Not sure how much your time is worth but I can make more money in a hour than I would save in an hour hunting for my own meat.

Neat. Nothing specific and anecdotal about that comment.

Differ from state to state and once you consider all of the things you did not mention, the picture becomes even clearer.

Or more specific on the opposite spectrum.

What you are ignoring is that, in most cases with hunters (and I now plenty), it's a handed down tradition from father to son, or mother to daughter, or all other types of relationships that you can think of, so the average hunter is not someone who starts from dead scratch and has to purchase everything right at the start of hunting season.

The truth of the matter, at least where I live, is that it falls somewhere in the middle, and closer to my side here in KY than yours.

And your's or mine is relevant how?

Because all food has measurable nutritional value, and we have a base set of nutrients that we know are good or harmful to the human body. My point was that opinion, even from a doctor, is irrelevant to the topic of measurable nutritional value of meat--that's a poor straw man and obvious appeal to authority.

Most? Have a source for that?

I'll show you mine if you show me yours.

Notice I cited nutritionists, not doctors, and while I know that it's a debate between some extremists in the industry, the average knowledgeable nutritionist and doctor will note that moderation is best, not extremes.

You're the one that brought up that aspect. Not sure why you did if you are going to dismiss the issue outright as being a matter of opinion.

No, you misunderstand (possibly on purpose): I noted that opinion on the matter is irrelevant, not that the topic is a matter of opinion. I mean, you quoted me both times that I noted that.

Silly goose.

originally posted by: introvert
a reply to: howtonhawky

I'm not entirely sure on the specifics of this case, but I will say that while I am not is a position to say whether or not it should be banned, I do think hunting is a form of a mental illness, unless the person absolutely needs it to feed their family.

Hunting for trophies or hunting for meat when food is easily available at much cheaper prices at the store is simply twisted.

Thats absolutely bonkers. As in crazy.

A hunted animal has a chance. It may not walk by a hide, a hunter may miss. It lead a free life.

A farm animal is a docile captive that was usually driven in a crap filled truck to a slaughterhouse that stinks of the guts of their kin. They may have been factory farmed, fed swill and lumped full of antibiotics.

Hunting is a hundred times kinder.

I aint eaten meat for nearly 30 years either, and i've worked with livestock on organic farms. I'd hunt and eat meat given the right opportunity though.

But yeah, farming lol

a reply to: SlapMonkey

Oh, so you bitch about my specifics, then counter that with citing someone who has to start from scratch and purchase everything all at once in order to hunt?

Most people are not born with their own land and a gun in their hand. They do have to purchase such things, but I did not say all at once, as you did.

Do not misrepresent what I said.

If I didn't know any better, I'd say you are playing silly reindeer games. If so, I call being Rudolph.

I made specific statements and stand by them. You are playing games by saying silly stuff.

Neat. Nothing specific and anecdotal about that comment.

So you have no comment on the specifics that I mentioned?

Ok. Doesn't do much for your argument, but if that's how you roll...

What you are ignoring is that, in most cases with hunters (and I now plenty), it's a handed down tradition from father to son, or mother to daughter, or all other types of relationships that you can think of, so the average hunter is not someone who starts from dead scratch and has to purchase everything right at the start of hunting season.

How nice. Tradition and stuff. Happy fathers and happy kids out in the fields of joy murdering # for fun.

Now the real question is does that make any financial sense. I can get chicken for $1-$1.25 a lb. Can you get the deer for that amount or cheeper? I can go a mile down the road, get my food, no need for a firearm, a licence, land rights, etc, and get back home in a matter of 20 minutes.

Can you do that hunting?

No.

Because all food has measurable nutritional value, and we have a base set of nutrients that we know are good or harmful to the human body. My point was that opinion, even from a doctor, is irrelevant to the topic of measurable nutritional value of meat--that's a poor straw man and obvious appeal to authority.

And my point is that you have invalidated your own assertion/opinion on the matter of nutritional value in regards to this topic.

You may not have meant to do so, but you have.

I'll show you mine if you show me yours. Notice I cited nutritionists, not doctors, and while I know that it's a debate between some extremists in the industry, the average knowledgeable nutritionist and doctor will note that moderation is best, not extremes.

I made no claims in regards to that particular issue. You did.

Get crackin'.

No, you misunderstand (possibly on purpose): I noted that opinion on the matter is irrelevant, not that the topic is a matter of opinion. I mean, you quoted me both times that I noted that.

I think you may be confused. Perhaps read what you posted again. It does appear that you are stepping on your own argument, or lack thereof.

a reply to: skalla

A hunted animal has a chance. It may not walk by a hide, a hunter may miss. It lead a free life.

A farm animal is a docile captive that was usually driven in a crap filled truck to a slaughterhouse that stinks of the guts of their kin. They may have been factory farmed, fed swill and lumped full of antibiotics.

The end result is the same.

Hunting is a hundred times kinder.

I'm sure the animals appreciate that as they are digested in our guts.

a reply to: introvert

I believe it is a mental illness and makes no logical sense

So , you have never had meat that wasn't filled with unhealthy "stuff" ? And/or , mostly soybean ? Bear steak is the best steak one will ever eat if prepared right.

Or , did you mean trophy hunting only ? You need to specify.....If that was the case , I agree.

The only problem with being outraged is , I havent seen one elephant in Georgia .
Those laws are not up to the US . They are enforced by the respective countries.
Again , the US law (get it ?) was pulled because it was illegal in relation to standing international law...

originally posted by: Gothmog
a reply to: introvert

I believe it is a mental illness and makes no logical sense

So , you have never had meat that wasn't filled with unhealthy "stuff" ? And/or , mostly soybean ? Bear steak is the best steak one will ever eat if prepared right.

Or , did you mean trophy hunting only ? You need to specify.....If that was the case , I agree.

I've eaten damn near anything you can think of. Been down many roads in my culinary adventures, but I still maintain that it takes someone special to justify going out and hunting animals, for trophy or food, unless that is the only choice they have.

a reply to: introvert

But the means is different, farmed animals suffer a lot more and only experience what the farmer allows.

It is a population of captives, versus free creatures.

If you cant see that then you dont care about the wellbeing of the animals at all. Get your head out of your ass.

a reply to: howtonhawky

I dunno man....its not like we have any right telling africa that they cany become a successful economy. Europeans killed all their large animals and it facilitated civilization. Now we want to tell Afruca they cant? So much for sovereignty.

Africa is the fastest growing population on the planet. Encroachment will not stop. So the options are to fund conservation or just give up.