The Great Pyramid of Khufu

Pretty sure it was a crime to kill cats but ok Wikipedia again?

a reply to: Byrd

originally posted by: AncientPheonix
Pretty sure it was a crime to kill cats but ok

Wikipedia again?

Wikipedia is as good as the sources it references. Of course, average Joe can come along any time and apply changes, so it's good to double check. But generally there's an engaged community making sure that BS is removed, try it yourself.

After all, Wikipedia is not being used here as a primary source to draft an academic paper.

Is this a joke?

I hope so?

Mr/Mer?

Ia reply to: Harte

I would never use Wikipedia for anything other than dohbting what I have read is true or not.

It’s much simpler to use reliable sources and academic papers.

a reply to: jeep3r

originally posted by: AncientPheonix
It’s much simpler to use reliable sources and academic papers.

If you go to the footnotes on the Wikipedia page you'll often find those exact things there.

originally posted by: AncientPheonix
Pretty sure it was a crime to kill cats but ok

Wikipedia again?

a reply to: Byrd

That was taken from Herodotus. The bodies of cats that have been sacrificed number in the millions. So who you gonna believe - Herodotus or the cats themselves?

Wikipedia articles (like this one on cats in Egypt) tend to be much shorter and more readable than the scholarly stuff.

originally posted by: AncientPheonix
It baffles me that you and this Harte guy take your posts very seriously, yet referencing me to look at Wikipedia. Ha!

Some academics!!

If you have a notable source for me to check then please link.

If you reference Wikipedia again I’ll remove the post, as Wikipedia is only good at spreading disinformation.

I could go change Wikipedia to say the Egyptians originated from South America if I wanted too.
a reply to: Byrd

Most folks will usually go read a Wikipedia article (and some will even check Wikipedia's sources.) And you can't remove a post - only moderators can do that.

articles

On cat mummies (includes manner of death) we have:
Armitage, P. L., and Juliet Clutton-Brock. "A radiological and histological investigation into the mummification of cats from Ancient Egypt." Journal of Archaeological Science 8.2 (1981): 185-196.

Mentions cat sacrifice
Serpell, James A. "Domestication and history of the cat." The domestic cat: The biology of its behaviour (2000): 179-192.

Mentions evidence that cats and kittens were strangled
Trumble, Kelly. Cat mummies. Houghton Mifflin Harcourt, 1996.

mentions sacrifice of house cats
Driscoll, Carlos A., et al. "The taming of the cat." Scientific American 300.6 (2009): 68-75.

Zivie, Alain, and Roger Lichtenberg. "The cats of the goddess Bastet." divine creatures: animal mummies in ancient egypt (2005): 106-119.

Types of cats chosen for mummification:
Ikram, Salima, ed. Divine creatures: animal mummies in ancient Egypt. American University in Cairo Press, 2005.

Textbooks - lots of things in here, including mention of cat mummies
Shaw, Ian, ed. The Oxford history of ancient Egypt. Oxford University Press, 2003.

Kemp, Barry J. Ancient Egypt: anatomy of a civilization. Psychology Press, 2006.

Ikram, Salima, ed. Divine creatures: animal mummies in ancient Egypt. American University in Cairo Press, 2005.


And that's just the quick access stuff.

originally posted by: AncientPheonix
All i can say is in say here laughing at how your Naming people as ignorant, yet being the most ignorant person in here

I understand you feel you know everything as you “teach” but that is the problem with Ancient History today.

Teachers and scientists looking at it from a narrow point of view because they have a “script” to stick to that can’t be broken and agenda to push.

If notice I said this post was a stretch and can clearly see it’s a bit of fun for the community and come together and look at these things, don’t be arrogant whilst here or all just delete all posts.


Please get of your high horse, because you sir are no better than any living thing on this planet.

a reply to: Harte

You appear to be ignorant of the meaning of the word "ignorant."
I cure ignorance every day at work.

It's not "fun" to pretend a provably false statement is true. If that's your idea of fun, take it to the games forum.

I don't "feel I know everything," but I do know the AEs didn't use degrees to measure slopes, so the idea that the number 26 has any significance in that context - because of a 26 degree angle - is idiocy.

It appears you would have preferred not to have been informed of this very basic, simple, and easy to confirm fact about the AEs.

I don't wonder at that, I understand the automatic restrictions of self-imposed ignorance.

Hard to live in a sparkly fantasyland when there are too many facts flying around.

Harte

originally posted by: AncientPheonix
It baffles me that you and this Harte guy take your posts very seriously, yet referencing me to look at Wikipedia. Ha!

Some academics!!

If you have a notable source for me to check then please link.

If you reference Wikipedia again I’ll remove the post, as Wikipedia is only good at spreading disinformation.

I could go change Wikipedia to say the Egyptians originated from South America if I wanted too.
a reply to: Byrd

And your statement would be edited out within 5 minutes of you posting it.

Harte

It was the European Christians who burned cats during the Dark Ages, because they thought they might be witches or familiars. They did a very good job, too, and then the flea-infested rat population exploded, and hello, Black Death!

Or was it a witch's curse? We may never know!

originally posted by: Harte

originally posted by: Groot

originally posted by: Harte

originally posted by: Groot
a reply to: Harte

The AEs didn't measure angles in degrees, so trying to correlate the number 26 with anything at all is utterly futile in this case. Harte

So, what did they do, Harte? Please share your knowledge instead of being condescending as usual.

The poster replied with it.
So, it's condescending to point out hilariously inaccurate claims?

What, did they change the motto to "Promote Ignorance?"

Harte

It's your approach brother. You may not realize this, but I have known you for awhile, and you are very condescending instead of trying to be more educational and helpful .

I guess you feel you are important or something.

Education begins with the self. I am already educating 140 teens a year.

Anyone with any curiosity can easily find out for themselves how the Egyptians created angles. The method is exceedingly easy to understand.

My responses are proportional to the amount of ignorance contained in the posts I respond to.

Harte

The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge.

~ Stephen Hawking

originally posted by: Byrd

originally posted by: JimNasium
(another power source) pyramid (Pyre=fire Amid=middle 'Fire in the middle"

"Pyramid" is a Greek word.

That's not what the Egyptians called them.

I always respect your dialogues on the Egyptians as I know you have a good understanding of them and never condescending with it. I still cannot see the Great Pyramid as a tomb. I have a 1912 1st edition of 'The Great Pyramid Passages' and every time I look at the cross sections, I can't help but see some kind of device or machine...for want of a better word.

It's all subjective and every opinion should be respected.

originally posted by: fromtheskydown

originally posted by: Harte

originally posted by: Groot

originally posted by: Harte

originally posted by: Groot
a reply to: Harte

The AEs didn't measure angles in degrees, so trying to correlate the number 26 with anything at all is utterly futile in this case. Harte

So, what did they do, Harte? Please share your knowledge instead of being condescending as usual.

The poster replied with it.
So, it's condescending to point out hilariously inaccurate claims?

What, did they change the motto to "Promote Ignorance?"

Harte

It's your approach brother. You may not realize this, but I have known you for awhile, and you are very condescending instead of trying to be more educational and helpful .

I guess you feel you are important or something.

Education begins with the self. I am already educating 140 teens a year.

Anyone with any curiosity can easily find out for themselves how the Egyptians created angles. The method is exceedingly easy to understand.

My responses are proportional to the amount of ignorance contained in the posts I respond to.

Harte

The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge.

~ Stephen Hawking

Too bad he's dead, since it seems like you might take this info about angles in sekeds better had Hawking relayed it to you instead of me.

Harte

originally posted by: fromtheskydown

originally posted by: Byrd

originally posted by: JimNasium
(another power source) pyramid (Pyre=fire Amid=middle 'Fire in the middle"

"Pyramid" is a Greek word.

That's not what the Egyptians called them.

I always respect your dialogues on the Egyptians as I know you have a good understanding of them and never condescending with it. I still cannot see the Great Pyramid as a tomb. I have a 1912 1st edition of 'The Great Pyramid Passages' and every time I look at the cross sections, I can't help but see some kind of device or machine...for want of a better word.

It's all subjective and every opinion should be respected.

You might change your mind once you start to study engines and machines.

You can make a lot of things that (to the untrained eye) look like a lot of other things - for instance, a paper towel roll, a grass stem, and pvc pipe all "sort of" look the same. However, they're not interchangeable. My daughter's dog "looks like" the Boston Dynamics "Big Dog" robot - and if you showed a picture of them and said they were the same to someone who hadn't seen dogs or robots before, the idea that they are the same is plausible.

Also, have you looked at other Egyptian tombs of the nobles? The mastabas, the pit and shaft graves, the previous pyramids and the ones after? If you look at them by dynastic groups, you can see how they develop. The GP is not the "end of the line" - nor was it the innovator, either.

a reply to: AncientPheonix

Neat O.P. Ancient Pheonix. I believe you need to read the story of the Priest Dehdi, in the Egyptian Book of the Dead, in the Book written by "Budge". This is a translation of the Stele Khufu set between the paws of the Great Sphinx at Giza. You just gotta learn to read between it's lines. The Pyramid originally had a box, sacred to their god Thoth, hidden away in the upper chambers. Khufu wanted it, so he could learn of those "upper chambers". If Khufu built it, then he paid for each and every stone in it. DUH! Then he'd known of any "voids", in his own tomb's masonry.

It was ancient by his own times. Dehdi told him to keep his cotton picking hands off of it. This should have gotten Dehdi killed, right then and there. But Dehdi also prophecised that a distant descendant of Khufu's would come from far in the West, and use the box in the last great struggle between good and evil. Now you're starting to get out into the story behind "Ark", the novel by Stanley Rader, which he claimed was swiped by the producers of "Raiders of the Lost Ark".

Mr. Rader lost at court, since he refused to believe that his story was only a work of fiction. And you can't copyright history, past or future. If Rader's protagonist was off searching for Khufu and the Box, he'd have had a better chance, at legally copyrighting a work of historical fiction, IMHO. And he'd have owned half of Hollywood, for good measure.

Today, maybe you could find Stanley Rader's copyright deposit in the Library of Congress, and read it there. Other than that, my take is that this box has the same footprint of the Ark of the Covenant, and both would have fit into the coffer in the King's Chamber, of the Great Pyramid. The great masonry is the shank, and this stone box, is the setting, so to speak.

The next question is, "what did Dehdi do with the stone box, in order to make his peace with Khufu"? In his day, it was hidden in the Chart Room at the Temple of Heliopolis. Where did it go to?? And is Khufu finally lying in repose, near it??

If that old Pharaoh couldn't possess it in his lifetime on Earth, he may have arranged to be buried near it, in his afterlife. Or maybe it was intended to be ditched during a wartime escape, into a crypt, near his own pre-existing tomb.

Much, much, later, priests of the Queen of Sheba, trained in Solomon's Temple in Jerusalem, set up a temple on the West Bank of the Nile, and stayed there for two centuries, in order to activate their own copy of the Ark that Moses constructed way before Solomon came along.

But someone, or someones, never wanted the stone box to stay in the coffer, so they coyote'd it out through an ancient inspection tunnel, down into the accessible Lower Pit. You can play numbers games forever, but the real story is in the Setting, not the Shank. We don't know who really built the Great Pyramid, or when. But the setting was removed to Heliopolis, and then, it was carried off into the Egyptian Desert, somewhere on the West Bank of the Nile.

There may be a secret message in that Stele, between the front paws of the Sphinx, where Khufu intimates where the box will be deposited, long after his death. But this turns into something like Dan Brown's novel, " The Da Vinci Code". One big old goose chase. Only Khufu's distant descendant is supposed to be able to find it. So this parallels the fable of King Arthur's pulling the sword of his father, Uther, out of a stone.

There is a story of a real sword in a stone, from Northern Italy. It's still there in a ruined abbey. The account of that Knight's putting it there, intimates that it was some kind of momentary dimensional vortex, which let him effortlessly slide it home into that rock. I believe that the Egyptian version will also be some kind of inter dimensional portal. But not with anything so simple as a well known broadsword, sticking out of it.

originally posted by: Harte

originally posted by: fromtheskydown

originally posted by: Harte

originally posted by: Groot

originally posted by: Harte

originally posted by: Groot
a reply to: Harte

The AEs didn't measure angles in degrees, so trying to correlate the number 26 with anything at all is utterly futile in this case. Harte

So, what did they do, Harte? Please share your knowledge instead of being condescending as usual.

The poster replied with it.
So, it's condescending to point out hilariously inaccurate claims?

What, did they change the motto to "Promote Ignorance?"

Harte

It's your approach brother. You may not realize this, but I have known you for awhile, and you are very condescending instead of trying to be more educational and helpful .

I guess you feel you are important or something.

Education begins with the self. I am already educating 140 teens a year.

Anyone with any curiosity can easily find out for themselves how the Egyptians created angles. The method is exceedingly easy to understand.

My responses are proportional to the amount of ignorance contained in the posts I respond to.

Harte

The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge.

~ Stephen Hawking

Too bad he's dead, since it seems like you might take this info about angles in sekeds better had Hawking relayed it to you instead of me.

Harte

I'm not disputing the angles in Sekeds at all, I just thought it was a great quote regarding the perception of ignorance. We all have our subjective opinions and we are all deserving of respect. I have no disrespect for you or your opinions whatsoever.

a reply to: Byrd

True, my attentions generally focus on the GP, due to it's presence in history...but, I love a good bout of conspiracy and mystery, even if it may be unfounded.

originally posted by: carpooler
a reply to: AncientPheonix

Neat O.P. Ancient Pheonix. I believe you need to read the story of the Priest Dehdi, in the Egyptian Book of the Dead, in the Book written by "Budge". This is a translation of the Stele Khufu set between the paws of the Great Sphinx at Giza.

I believe you've misremembered this. There's no priest named "Dehdi" (that's not an Egyptian name) and the "book of the dead" is actually a mishmash of texts from tombs and coffins (no two of them are the same.

The Sphinx stele is not a "book of the dead" - it's a retelling of how Thutmose rescued the Sphinx from the sands. It's called the Dream Stele and here's the translation.

The Pyramid originally had a box, sacred to their god Thoth, hidden away in the upper chambers. Khufu wanted it, so he could learn of those "upper chambers". If Khufu built it, then he paid for each and every stone in it. DUH! Then he'd known of any "voids", in his own tomb's masonry.

You seem to have a third document confused here. That's from the Westcar Papyrus, where a prince named Djedf-Hor brings the magician Dedi to Khufu. And the box was in a temple in Heliopolis.

It was ancient by his own times. Dehdi told him to keep his cotton picking hands off of it. This should have gotten Dehdi killed, right then and there. But Dehdi also prophecised that a distant descendant of Khufu's would come from far in the West, and use the box in the last great struggle between good and evil.

The children aren't descendants of Khufu, but children of the god, Re, and a woman named Reddjedet. The story ends with Khufu having Dedi brought to his palace and given wealth. The story ends there. Dedi didn't prophesy any descendant and there was not (in Egyptian theology) a "last great struggle between good and evil." There is only one known source about the "end of the universe" (and it' s pretty late in their history) and involves Atum and Osiris as the last things in the universe.

Now you're starting to get out into the story behind "Ark", the novel by Stanley Rader, which he claimed was swiped by the producers of "Raiders of the Lost Ark".

Mr. Rader lost at court, since he refused to believe that his story was only a work of fiction. And you can't copyright history, past or future. If Rader's protagonist was off searching for Khufu and the Box, he'd have had a better chance, at legally copyrighting a work of historical fiction, IMHO. And he'd have owned half of Hollywood, for good measure.

Rader was the attorney who argued the case His client, Kuhn, has a fishy story (no publishers buy novels of that length and as a screenplay, that would run longer than the entire run of 4 Lord of the Rings movies.) Yes, you can copyright something based on history... that's done all the time (take a look at every book on history or every biographical movie, etc, etc. All copyrighted.)

The next question is, "what did Dehdi do with the stone box, in order to make his peace with Khufu"? In his day, it was hidden in the Chart Room at the Temple of Heliopolis. Where did it go to?? And is Khufu finally lying in repose, near it??

Nothing. Khufu was in awe of his magical powers.

If that old Pharaoh couldn't possess it in his lifetime on Earth, he may have arranged to be buried near it, in his afterlife. Or maybe it was intended to be ditched during a wartime escape, into a crypt, near his own pre-existing tomb.

I think you've gotten the Westcar papyrus confused with something else. Westcar's very clearly a work of fiction.

Much, much, later, priests of the Queen of Sheba, trained in Solomon's Temple in Jerusalem, set up a temple on the West Bank of the Nile, and stayed there for two centuries, in order to activate their own copy of the Ark that Moses constructed way before Solomon came along.

But someone, or someones, never wanted the stone box to stay in the coffer, so they coyote'd it out through an ancient inspection tunnel, down into the accessible Lower Pit. You can play numbers games forever, but the real story is in the Setting, not the Shank. We don't know who really built the Great Pyramid, or when. But the setting was removed to Heliopolis, and then, it was carried off into the Egyptian Desert, somewhere on the West Bank of the Nile.

There may be a secret message in that Stele, between the front paws of the Sphinx, where Khufu intimates where the box will be deposited, long after his death. But this turns into something like Dan Brown's novel, " The Da Vinci Code". One big old goose chase. Only Khufu's distant descendant is supposed to be able to find it. So this parallels the fable of King Arthur's pulling the sword of his father, Uther, out of a stone.

Your timeline is a tad out of whack there... the Stele was created over a thousand years AFTER Khufu died, and the Queen of Sheba (if she lived) was another 600 years later.

originally posted by: fromtheskydown
a reply to: Byrd

True, my attentions generally focus on the GP, due to it's presence in history...but, I love a good bout of conspiracy and mystery, even if it may be unfounded.

Ah, there's plenty of conspiracies and mysteries in ancient Egyptian history (like "where IS Nefertiti buried?" and "what happened to Seqenere Tao?") and a lot of delightful ancient engineering (like the first coin operated vending machine - Temple of Alexandria in the time of Cleopatra!)

originally posted by: fromtheskydown

originally posted by: Harte

originally posted by: fromtheskydown

originally posted by: Harte

originally posted by: Groot

originally posted by: Harte

originally posted by: Groot
a reply to: Harte

The AEs didn't measure angles in degrees, so trying to correlate the number 26 with anything at all is utterly futile in this case. Harte

So, what did they do, Harte? Please share your knowledge instead of being condescending as usual.

The poster replied with it.
So, it's condescending to point out hilariously inaccurate claims?

What, did they change the motto to "Promote Ignorance?"

Harte

It's your approach brother. You may not realize this, but I have known you for awhile, and you are very condescending instead of trying to be more educational and helpful .

I guess you feel you are important or something.

Education begins with the self. I am already educating 140 teens a year.

Anyone with any curiosity can easily find out for themselves how the Egyptians created angles. The method is exceedingly easy to understand.

My responses are proportional to the amount of ignorance contained in the posts I respond to.

Harte

The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge.

~ Stephen Hawking

Too bad he's dead, since it seems like you might take this info about angles in sekeds better had Hawking relayed it to you instead of me.

Harte

I'm not disputing the angles in Sekeds at all, I just thought it was a great quote regarding the perception of ignorance. We all have our subjective opinions and we are all deserving of respect. I have no disrespect for you or your opinions whatsoever.

I have an opinion. You should respect it.
My opinion is that, since the AEs didn't measure in angles, finding some significance in their culture for the number "26" because of a 26 degree angle in some architecture is a fruitless and ignorant pursuit.

Harte