Only the bad guys have guns in gun free zones?

originally posted by: intrptr
a reply to: TinySickTears

there was someone with a ccw carrying and didnt do # when it came time to react.

is this not possible as well?

Not likely. If I got the chance, I would (shoot back).

Your brother says he carries concealed illegally at times. I don't have any veracity for that or your claim you don't believe it about others anymore. People carry guns to protect themselves and others. Can't think of a better time to whip one out.

maybe you would shoot back.
not everyone would though. some people will freeze up.

all this was just to prove a point that it is not true that only criminals/bad guys/guys with bad intentions have guns in these gun free zones.
its just simply not true

so that makes the argument that only the bad guys do not valid

we are told it would be safer if these gun free zones did not exist cause only criminals have them in those zones. again, not true.
they do exist and legal ccw holders carry in these zones as well.

that was my point.
no more
no less

why people are getting pissy is a mystery

i suspect it is because they often talk about the rules and the law and being a law abiding holder...blah blah blah

originally posted by: verschickter
You should see me smiling right now

.

Somehow a simple question pissed of him, not the way around. Things getting spinned again, how surprising.

what are you talking about?

i didnt spin anything and i am not pissed off

If the OP's purpose was to get CCW holders to admit to ignoring "No Guns Allowed" signs, then a quick Google search would have sufficed.

It's been common knowledge in the CCW world and on forums that CCW holders ignore those signs when they are able to.

a reply to: TinySickTears
It wasn´t directed at you, obviously. Great if you´re not pissed off certainly seemed to be so! Then I ask myself why did you overreact to such a simple question? A simple & honest, no would have been enough.

See, I can do this, too. It works both ways.

originally posted by: cynicalheathen
If the OP's purpose was to get CCW holders to admit to ignoring "No Guns Allowed" signs, then a quick Google search would have sufficed.



It's been common knowledge in the CCW world and on forums that CCW holders ignore those signs when they are able to.

admit makes it sound nefarious

i wanted to see how many do vs how many dont. rather do that by asking than pulling some stat

to your last part

It's been common knowledge in the CCW world and on forums that CCW holders ignore those signs when they are able to.

then why are we constantly being told that only the bad guys have guns in these zones?

we hear it all the time.

why do people use that as part of their argument and to get others that dont agree to feel a certain way about it when it is not true?

this is the core of a lot of the gun control arguments.

only the bad guys/criminals will have guns in these zones so those zones are pointless and blah blah

apparently this is completely false because law abiding ccw holders carry in these zones too and apparently it is common knowledge that ccw holders ignore these signs as well.

why the the bull# argument about it then?

just your opinion?

a reply to: TinySickTears

People who are misinformed? I don't know why that argument is made. It's always been a non-starter with me because I've known since I started CCWing years ago that "No Guns Allowed" signs are widely ignored.

Keep in mind that there is a distinct difference between a private business posting a "No Guns" sign and a courthouse, police station, airport, etc doing the same. One has the force of law behind it and one does not. I do not carry in locations where the force of law applies.

Each state is different in what applies where, a d each individual CCW permit holder is responsible for knowing the law.

originally posted by: cynicalheathen
a reply to: TinySickTears

People who are misinformed? I don't know why that argument is made. It's always been a non-starter with me because I've known since I started CCWing years ago that "No Guns Allowed" signs are widely ignored.

Keep in mind that there is a distinct difference between a private business posting a "No Guns" sign and a courthouse, police station, airport, etc doing the same. One has the force of law behind it and one does not. I do not carry in locations where the force of law applies.

Each state is different in what applies where, a d each individual CCW permit holder is responsible for knowing the law.

could be they are misinformed.
could be they know damn well and are lying because go guns!!

both are possible

a reply to: TinySickTears

Who is pissed off?
The bravado I spoke of hasn't anything to do with your OP, but to the responses meeting your OP's supposition regarding you suspect many people break the law when they carry in "gun free zones."

I have come to notice a lot of bravado in regards folks on the gun topic and fully expected many to say they carry where law says they shouldn't.

I believe the law is the only thing keeping our society moderately civil, so I choose to follow it, well mostly...I guess going 74 in a 70mph zone makes me a hypocrite too

a reply to: badw0lf

right, a law has never stopped a person from committing murder.
It is only used to punish the murder after the fact. And only if the murder is caught.


Gun free zones will not stop a murder from happening and our laws to punish murderers that we catch are already on the books.

No need for useless laws.

a reply to: TinySickTears

Lets say that all ccw holders don't follow the no gun zone law?

So what? It still shows how useless the law is.

Are you just information gathering with no point or do you have an opinion about the no gun laws that your trying to uphold?

a reply to: Edumakated

The crazy thing is I don't get who these signs are supposed to be for? Law abiding citizens? Criminals? Why advertise to the world your business is gun free?

I personally think those signs are only there to make the law abiding citizens, who don't understand how the criminal mind works, feel safer.
It's the poster child for giving up your freedoms for an illusion of safety.

a reply to: UpIsNowDown

but mass shootings will reduce

I disagree.
Nicholas thought about what he was going to do days maybe even weeks before he did it.
He could have gotten a gun on the black market almost as easily as the one he used.

a reply to: TinySickTears

in the end the point i am trying to make is the argument of only bad guys have guns in these zones in invalid because it is simply not true. it is presented on these boards like it is though.

I think you might be the first person to bring this up. So thank you for making us think.
This is an interesting question.

originally posted by: TinySickTears
law abiding ccw holders carry in these places too even though it is against the law

The highest law in the land says: the right to keep and bear arms "shall not be infringed". If you have a law that breaks a law how is that a law?

I'm not an idiot. I don't need a Supreme Court Justice to tell me what the 2d Amendment says. It's pretty damn clear. What's not clear is: Why aren't people being kicked right out of the country for violating the 2d Amendment with the creation of gun-free zones?

I suspect, if you could find it documented, you'd find the first violation of the 2d Amendment occurred when some judge restricted the carry of firearms in his "Court of Law".

a reply to: BlueJacket

I believe the law is the only thing keeping our society moderately civil, so I choose to follow it, well mostly...I guess going 74 in a 70mph zone makes me a hypocrite too

If your not braking some kind of law than you are not really living.lol

originally posted by: scraedtosleep
a reply to: TinySickTears

Lets say that all ccw holders don't follow the no gun zone law?

So what? It still shows how useless the law is.

Are you just information gathering with no point or do you have an opinion about the no gun laws that your trying to uphold?

dude im just interested.
i get curious about # so i ask.

not trying to change anyones opinion about it.
just fulfilling my curiosity

originally posted by: scraedtosleep


I personally think those signs are only there to make the law abiding citizens, who don't understand how the criminal mind works, feel safer.
It's the poster child for giving up your freedoms for an illusion of safety.

youre probably right man.
that is the simplest, easiest answer.

people see the sign and figure its not happening.
same with everything else so why should this be any different.

in any decent sized group of people. lets say a grocery store or whatever.
someone in there who is allowed to carry a gun will be
someone in there who is not allowed to carry will be
someone in there will have weed on them
someone in there has been drinking and driving

know what i mean

we are all people and we all do it.
i have said it about myself a lot

we all pick and choose what laws to follow. non of us are saints

some of us speed
some of us use mj
some of us fill in the blank


does not mean we are bad people. im not saying that at all
when i say bad guys its just the general term i see so i am using it

I am a CCW holder, but I do not carry in Schools, government buildings, or bars. When you take the CCW training, you learn where you can, and cannot have your weapon. You also learn that if you don't follow the rules, you can have your CCW taken from you.

I don't know the location you are trying to reference, but if CCW didn't give a # for the law, why have no CCW holders stop a school shooting? I'd wager because they know they can't carry there, and don't. If your brother get's too lax with his adherence to the rules, he may find himself without his creds. If we don't follow the rules, who will?

originally posted by: TinySickTears

originally posted by: TexasTruth
I would say the successful mass murder scenes, the bad guys were the only ones with the gun. In a few of the unsuccessful cases (the shooter was taken out), a good guy had a gun. These are usually buried in the main stream media and not widely reported on.
I will pack heat wherever I feel uneasy. I would rather be alive defending myself in court than dead any day.

we dont know for sure though if any good guys had guns in these situations. people assume there was none because they didnt pull and try to save the day but they could have been like the dude at the school and just froze up.

the argument is we would be safer if good guys had guns in these zones because only bad guys carry in those zones.
not always true though now is it?

just since yesterday i have learned of 3 people that have a ccw and carry into these gun free zones.
my brother
the first person to post and you

so much like criminals dont obey the rules ccw holders dont either?

1 person even said my brother is a bad guy for not obeying the sign.
you carry wherever you feel you need... does that make you a bad guy?

i know my thoughts are jumbled. i cant really articulate what i am thinking about.

how is a discussion about gun laws and regulations supposed to get anywhere when people cant agree on how it is now?
who is right?

we see on these boards all the time people talking about following the laws and the rules and being safe.

as it stands not we have bad guys that carry in these gun free zones

we have some like a person above that will not carry in those places cause he respects the ruls

we have others that carry where they feel the need

so criminals carry whenever they want and wherever they want. obviously
seems like some legal ccw holders do too.

so basically people(as expected cause we are people) pick and choose which rules to follow.

I can honestly say my "car pistol" has left ride my twice. Once in a gas station parking lot which is in a very rough part of town that is by my station. I have made several shootings and stabbings there. I could tell it was a bad time to be stopped there once I started filling up. The .38 went in my pocket with them watching. We spoke a "silent language" in that moment and they moved away. The other time was at a mall. My beautiful bride and daughter were very aware of a group of thugs following us around the mall. I left them in the crowded part by security, got the old .38 out, went back in and got outa there. Still being followed! That was one of the scariest moments where I thought I was really going to have to use it.
I don't know if either one had a sign. Maybe at the mall, but it was in and out. The gas station was a parking lot, so no. That was legal.
I don't carry except in my vehicle and those two times. But! What I meant was like at the mall, to protect my family I would rather be in court than the alternative.
The beauty of conceal carry is the bad guys don't know who is packing. Walking around with a holster and looking like Dirty Harry isn't real smart in my opinion.

originally posted by: badw0lf

originally posted by: TexasTruth
I would say the successful mass murder scenes, the bad guys were the only ones with the gun.

Surely they would use a car, a knife, a hammer, if they were intent in killing as many people as possible?

It's a gun free zone. Why are there never any mass hammer killings in walmart?? Maybe they need to make them hammer free zones, to elicit the crazies to go all hammery on the populace.

let you think about that, naked gun toting guy by the pool.

Exactly. Like Nice France. I think the death toll was 80 people with a car in that attack. And in Sagamihara Japan where 19 were killed with a knife. I can't remember any hammer mass killings off the top of my head, but I DO remember in Pink Floyd "The Wall" the flags were a hammer and the crowds shouting Hammer, so you may be onto something.

My picture sure seems to really bother you. You've mentioned it in every comment to me. Does it make you uncomfortable? It's ok you know, I'm really a nice guy. I won't beat you up or take your lunch money. It's meant to be funny, not to intimidate you.