32 Charges In New Mueller Indictment of Manafort and Gates

Gates will be in court within the hour to plead guilty to vastly reduced charges.

Method to the madness. Mueller wouldn't back off unless there was some quid pro quo.

a reply to: Sillyolme


Agreed silly

Mueller isn't a pushover, and from my understanding he's a well respected investigator. I can't say the same for some of the people on his team, but can't hold other people's actions against Mueller.

And that is pretty interesting living by John Gotti's son at one point. Gotti himself may have been a criminal thug (he was), but that time in our history is such a fascinating period. The level of control these Mafia types wielded is astonishing at times

originally posted by: dawnofvictory

originally posted by: UnBreakable

originally posted by: kurthall

originally posted by: Perfectenemy
a reply to: aethertek

Your obsession with russians is getting troublesome. Not everything is about Trump no matter how much you want it to be.

LMAO, these Are real criminal charges against trump camp. This is no little deal dude. If this were Hillary you'd be dancing in the rain.

Yet, still no evidence of “collusion” which the libs have been crowing about for more than a year.

For collusion you need physical evidence like electronic text, phone records, photos, videos.

More to the point, collusion is not a crime. Racketeering, obstruction of justice, Money laundering, tax evasion and conspiracy to defraud the US government etc. etc. is though.

a reply to: Sillyolme


It seems he may be turning against Manafort or perhaps the unnamed financial institution co-conspirator?

There is no reason to think Billionaire Trump was involved in a financial conspiracy that started in 2004. That is a pretty big stretch to assume this has anything to do with Trump. Trump's never been mentioned in the proceedings against Gates/Manafort. In fact, save for the 16 Russian indictments, I had never seen him mentioned at all. The only time was in that indictment, clearing him of the conspiracy charge (by removing the essential conspiracy element of "knowingly/intentionally")

Don't get me wrong, if there is indeed evidence then that changes things. But the charges these guys are facing means they're going to have to come up with some pretty damned good evidence. Otherwise, it'll look like they're just trying to save their own skin. If there is evidence, then they should and must run with it. But I seriously doubt it. If this were a wager, I'd put the deed to my house it

a reply to: Arnie123

Yes. We already know Muellers specialty, this isn't new info and doesn't scare the slightest

Well it shouldn't scare you. You won't be charged with anything. Lol. You don't know what trump is feeling.

Gates WON'T flip because there isn't anything to flip on,

Ummm..he just did...or will some time in the next hour or so.

originally posted by: soberbacchus

More to the point, collusion is not a crime. Racketeering, obstruction of justice, Money laundering, tax evasion and conspiracy to defraud the US government etc. etc. is though.

Very true

Although it is most likely they're talking about the unnamed co-conspirator at the financial instution who aided Manafort/Gates in their decades long conspiracy. Most likely, but not definitively.

a reply to: JBurns

And that is pretty interesting living by John Gotti's son at one point.

Babylon village. Long island New York. On the waterfront. Captain Kangaroo and Mario Puzo author of the Godfather also lived nearby. Sensing a theme? Lol.

a reply to: theantediluvian


Agreed ante I don't dispute that. Manafort/Gates are dirty as dirty gets, and their prosecution has really changed my perception of Mueller. Although like I said some of the people on his team were complete ###bags, that doesn't and can't reflect on Mueller's career/reputation

It is unfortunate to see how far the grand jury system has been usurped. The one true bulwark of prosecuting government malfeasance/outright criminality is now controlled by the very government it exists in-part to oppose (as well as investigating matters of importance to the community and crimes committed of public interest)

But I tend to agree with you in this case. I just wish Mueller would take everyone in DC and examine them this closely. I bet we'd have a lot fewer "insiders" that are beholden to special lobbies and foreign interests. It is kind of a shame that we have gotten here

a reply to: Sillyolme


Very nice, you get to live in an area with both historical importance and conspiratorial importance! So that would put you near Camp Hero then? I've always wanted to visit after seeing some of the old threads posted by WOS

www.abovetopsecret.com...

I bet it is beautiful up there in the autumn especially

WaPo is reporting that Gates is expected to be in court to plead guilty at 2pm. Based on a document filed today, it's being reported in multiple outlets that he'll plead guilty to Conspiracy Against the United States and making false statements.

a reply to: JBurns

 some of the people on his team were complete ###bags,

Who specifically?
Respectfully. I'm interested.

a reply to: JBurns

I moved from long island a long time ago.
Montauk was an hour east and a different world.
Our town was only rich. Out east was the uber rich lol.
It's nice in the fall but the islands most common tree is the scrub pine.
It's fabulous in the summer. Never too hot or too humid.

But I was in New York with Donald in the eighties when he was just making a name for himself and was still on his first wife. I didn't like him then either but that was because he was humiliating Ivanka by openly running around with Marla Maples and I thought it was #ty to do to his kids publicly too.
Adultery is nasty. It hurts everybody in a family.

a reply to: theantediluvian

Vastly reduced charges. What is he giving for this gift?

a reply to: Sillyolme


Well, Peter Strozok and Lisa Page for starters. Even if they did nothing untoward, they put the investigation at risk by pulling some of the stunts they did. Even if it was just talk, why on Earth would anyone want to even give the appearance of impropriety in such a politically charged case?

Keep in mind I'm not suggesting they be locked up or anything such as that. I do feel their conduct warrants an impartial investigation, which to my understanding is why the inspector general's office is doing at this time. I think they were also looking at McCabe and Ohr, but it is unclear what in the way of hard evidence they may or may not have against those two

I think Page/Strozok's communications speak for themselves though, and I would be very curious to see exactly what impact they've had throughout their tenure. That said, if there is no crime then I say dismiss them for misconduct and be done with it. Those two have damaged FBI's reputation more than anyone since J. Edgar Hoover allegedly sent threatening letters to Dr. King. And it is damn unfortunate, because FBI is a fine institution with a lot of dedicated men and women special agents and support personnel

If they did commit some crime, then they should have to answer for that like anyone else who committed a crime. Up to and including the President of the United States. Due process must be afforded, but all who are guilty deserve to answer to a court of law for their actions

Like I said though, that should not and can not be allowed to discredit or harm Mueller. I do feel the special counsel has exceeded their scope/intent, but IMHO (just my opinion) as long as he's nailing bad guys then I say good for him. And whether its OSC Mueller, OIG or whoever else doing the investigations, it is clear DC is filled with bad actors and criminals who also should answer for their actions

originally posted by: theantediluvian
WaPo is reporting that Gates is expected to be in court to plead guilty at 2pm. Based on a document filed today, it's being reported in multiple outlets that he'll plead guilty to Conspiracy Against the United States and making false statements.

That's what I have been reading as well.

He sent a letter out to family and friends explaining that he was going to plead guilty.

Was just listening to Shep Smith on Fox. He's so hopeful this is leading to something that takes Trump down.

I did find it interesting that he asked his guest why else would Mueller prosecute Manafort if not to get to Trump, and his guest basically said there is no other reason.

So if they uncovered Manafort's illegal dealings during this investigation and there was no link to Trump, they would just ignore the fact that Manafort committed a bunch of felonies if he had nothing on Trump?

He may indeed have something on Trump, but to suggest that he must because otherwise Mueller wouldn't be filing charges against him is just absurd.

originally posted by: face23785

He may indeed have something on Trump, but to suggest that he must because otherwise Mueller wouldn't be filing charges against him is just absurd.

Shep's in for such a major letdown. Mueller appears to be moving further away from Trump, not closer to him. These charges date back years before the election, and the only people even suggesting a link to Trump are desperate never-Trumpers like him who have been clutching at straws for months now. Plus, the Russian indictment and Rosentstein's announcement basically admitted that Trump and his people did not aid the Russians. Manafort appears to be the biggest fish Muller is likely to land, so he is making sure he can nail him. And since there is question that much of the evidence against Manafort might be illegally siezed (in violation of attorney-client privilege), Muller is wise to seek additional charges with separate lines of evidence, in case the original charges get thrown out by the courts.

originally posted by: face23785
Was just listening to Shep Smith on Fox. He's so hopeful this is leading to something that takes Trump down.

I did find it interesting that he asked his guest why else would Mueller prosecute Manafort if not to get to Trump, and his guest basically said there is no other reason.

So if they uncovered Manafort's illegal dealings during this investigation and there was no link to Trump, they would just ignore the fact that Manafort committed a bunch of felonies if he had nothing on Trump?

He may indeed have something on Trump, but to suggest that he must because otherwise Mueller wouldn't be filing charges against him is just absurd.

Shepard Smith is a tabloid man.

originally posted by: dawnofvictory

originally posted by: face23785
Was just listening to Shep Smith on Fox. He's so hopeful this is leading to something that takes Trump down.

I did find it interesting that he asked his guest why else would Mueller prosecute Manafort if not to get to Trump, and his guest basically said there is no other reason.

So if they uncovered Manafort's illegal dealings during this investigation and there was no link to Trump, they would just ignore the fact that Manafort committed a bunch of felonies if he had nothing on Trump?

He may indeed have something on Trump, but to suggest that he must because otherwise Mueller wouldn't be filing charges against him is just absurd.

Shepard Smith is a tabloid man.

Regarding the car that crashed into the White House barrier this afternoon, Shepard Smith just said that if you want to get to the White House that is not the proper route to take.

He should go to work for CNN or MSNBC.

originally posted by: carewemust

originally posted by: dawnofvictory

originally posted by: face23785
Was just listening to Shep Smith on Fox. He's so hopeful this is leading to something that takes Trump down.

I did find it interesting that he asked his guest why else would Mueller prosecute Manafort if not to get to Trump, and his guest basically said there is no other reason.

So if they uncovered Manafort's illegal dealings during this investigation and there was no link to Trump, they would just ignore the fact that Manafort committed a bunch of felonies if he had nothing on Trump?

He may indeed have something on Trump, but to suggest that he must because otherwise Mueller wouldn't be filing charges against him is just absurd.

Shepard Smith is a tabloid man.

Regarding the car that crashed into the White House barrier this afternoon, Shepard Smith just said that if you want to get to the White House that is not the proper route to take.

He should go to work for CNN or MSNBC.

No, he just not right in the head, if you know what I mean.