Homicides per state, wow.

originally posted by: Xcalibur254
a reply to: butcherguy

Vermont also has a population density of 67 people/sq mi compared to DC's 11,000 people/sq mi.

So people that live closer together have to kill each other?

originally posted by: network dude
if we go by just population, then why aren't NY and FL higher than IL?

At one time New York City had a homicide rate that made Chicago's look like amateur hour, now it is lower than nearly every major city. I'm sure there are multiple factors involved; policing, cultural shifts, New York City's absurdly tight gun laws, etc, but I don't think there is a very good way to quantify any of them.

originally posted by: Edumakated
Chicago is as safe of a city as anywhere. However, if you go to the south and west sides of the city, it is a war zone.

Yup, just got back from the Gold Coast area and I didn't get murdered.

Sorry to disappoint everyone.

Break the shootings down by race as well.
The large cities like Chicago are high crime areas.
Salt lake city is not.

Add in economic conditions.
Add in average education levels.

The idea of struck gun laws in some cities and states is a joke. Like these criminals can't just drive out of the city of buy a stolen gun on the street.

If we are going to look for answers we need to ask all questions.

a reply to: network dude

Should California get a prize for killing less per capita?

Nope but it does provide some support for the idea that stricter gun regulations lead to less gun deaths per capita and what’s even more interesting this is despite massive problems with gang violence and other crimes that are not as prevent in more rural areas.

This line of thinking actually supports gun restrictions

You will never have a single law that will stop all gun deaths but what this does demonstrate is that with stricter gun laws you can reduce gun dealths.

I’m mean overall over the last few decades California has seen about a 50% reduction in gun deaths (Link)

So with that said would you support more gun regulations similar to those in California now that we you have demonstrated that it reduces gun deaths.

a reply to: butcherguy

Do you deny that there is a correlation between population density and increased homicide rates? Look at any state, the vast majority of the homicides occur in cities.

originally posted by: network dude

originally posted by: Edumakated


I just point this out because anyone reading that data can rightly conclude, gun control has absolutely zero to do with the murder rate. You also have to start asking questions as to why are young black men so susceptible to gun violence? But see, these are the questions and data people want to gloss over for fear of where it might lead.

I suspect if you were to dig into the gun violence in other states, you will see similar data trends. I know this to be true because when you look at the FBI data which includes race, the data is consistent.

When will it be OK to discuss the uncomfortable aspects? I have seem how quickly that conversation can degrade into racial spew, but damn, if anyone is ever going to fix the problem, we kind of need to address it AS a problem first.

I want to know why Americans seem to have such a high rate of killing each other. Even if the answer is something I don't want to hear.

I don't know but you can't solve the problem without seriously looking at the racial and cultural aspect. I say this as a black guy. Gun violence in the black community is an epidemic. To be blunt, America DOES NOT have a gun violence problem, we have a young black male gun violence problem. The data is clear and conclusive.

There has been a complete breakdown of the black family largely brought on by progressive welfare social policy in the 60s. This has led to about 75% of black kids being born out of wedlock where fathers are largely absent.

You basically have a lot of young black men growing up with very little direction and a culture which promotes hyper masculinity, but also has these young men being raised by overly emotional females. Hyper Masculinity with out of control emotional responses equals not knowing how to respond and deal with issues which is why so much of the violence is over senseless bullsh*t. Facebook and twitter beefs.

Throw in hip hop culture glorifying hustling, gangs, and violence it is no wonder this small segment of the population is responsible for so much urban mayhem.

originally posted by: Xcalibur254
Do you deny that there is a correlation between population density and increased homicide rates?

I do, New York City is the largest population center in the country and has one of the lowest homicide rates.

originally posted by: Xcalibur254
a reply to: butcherguy

Do you deny that there is a correlation between population density and increased homicide rates? Look at any state, the vast majority of the homicides occur in cities.

If that were the case, Manhattan would be a war zone.

The larger correlation is race and income, not population density. Where ever you have a large concentration of poor blacks, you will have high murder rates. This is why even backwaters like Baton Rouge, LA have very high murder rates per capita.

California, 3rd largest state, but most populated state.

if not gun laws, then how do we stop people from killing each other?

BAN PEOPLE!

originally posted by: AugustusMasonicus

originally posted by: network dude
if we go by just population, then why aren't NY and FL higher than IL?

At one time New York City had a homicide rate that made Chicago's look like amateur hour, now it is lower than nearly every major city. I'm sure there are multiple factors involved; policing, cultural shifts, New York City's absurdly tight gun laws, etc, but I don't think there is a very good way to quantify any of them.

That is something to look at. How did NY changed this so drastically?

Here are stats per capita:
en.wikipedia.org...

As was mentioned DC was amazingly high. Also Louisiana?

Can we look at gun free zones vs armed citizens places?

a reply to: network dude

These 2 states are also the largest and most populated.
This a more complex issue then gun laws. Chicago is proof.

originally posted by: network dude

originally posted by: OtherSideOfTheCoin
Yeah but do states like California not have more problems with gang violence for example.

Would also be interesting to look at those numbers per capita given that there are about 10 million more people in California than Texas yet only 471 more deaths. That alone pretty much debunks the premise of your thread.

the premise of my thread is why are people here killing each other. I presented some facts. I asked some questions. Should California get a prize for killing less per capita?

Why are Americans killing each other? That is what I want to know. And sorry, you may not be the best one to answer that question.

Lots of reasons. It’s not a simple answer and it’s a multi-step, generational type solution.

originally posted by: JHumm
Can we look at gun free zones vs armed citizens places?

www.nationalreview.com...

a reply to: GeechQuestInfo

I agree. But we need to be talking about it, so we can find some answers. (IMHO)

a reply to: network dude

It was stop & frisk and the fact that Manhattan completely gentrified. There are still some spots in Queens, Brooklyn, Bronx, that are rough but by in large, Manhattan is nothing like it was in the 80s early 90s. The entire island has basically been turned into Chipotle, Panera, disneyland-esque playground for the wealthy and students.

Average condo in Manhattan cost like $1.5 million. People paying that kind of bread for a 800 sqft shoe box aren't going to tolerate too much crime.

a reply to: Edumakated

so they priced out crime? I think you may have something there, but it sure sounds crazy to say it.

originally posted by: network dude
That is something to look at. How did NY changed this so drastically?

I think the first noticeable change came under Giuliani and the revamped policing implemented during his first administration.