H&M clothing chain latest target of racial hysteria

originally posted by: Spider879
a reply to: Edumakated

True, it's more of a WTF moment than anything else, what I do find more annoying is folks dismissive attitude, like get over it or stop you're making me feel bad, every year on Halloween , folks including liberal Hollywood have to go out do the apology tour because they can't stop with the blackface.

I'm not saying ban images that would piss most blk folks off, but don't tell us to be kool with it when it's not.

I'm also aware that all blackface are not equal, like say in parts of Europe where folk traditions centuries old are imitating the Moors of the past, performing mock battles, dances etc.. or the tradition of Black Pete in Holland context matters.

That's rather hypocritical. All of it. You can't draw a circle and toss in what you want and say everything else is not cool. That's being biased and you believe one person deserves criticism over the other. What's good for the goose, I'd say...

You don't want anyone telling you how to feel and how you should react and I don't want you telling me how to feel or how I should act/react. So we're back at square one. The difference is, I shrug it off but for you it's still an issue, especially when we have huge similarities in our history. But I understand... Some black folk in my home town community gets it, some dont. Such is life. You'll keep throwing issues at us and I'll keep defending and pointing out how hypocritical it is and give you good examples and reasons why it shouldn't be like that. It'll go around in a circle for times until one of us says "you don't matter". That's a pretty crappy way to go about it. Instead of both of us getting over it, someone will always pull the other around that circle and making it an issue.

It's kind of like agreeing to disagree. In the end, it goes no where. We're both prideful, we both think our answer is the correct one, but the difference is, one of us wants to keep it an issue.

The correct answer is... The world is bigger than the both of us. 1st world problems, man.

a reply to: Edumakated

I can completely see how it may have been over looked. H&M certainly has some what of a pass in that they are not an American company. However, American companies do stuff all the time like that...

See... that's where you're mistaken.

You say Europe (HUGE country) it's ok.

US (HUGE country) it's not ok.

You don't live in Europe so you can't know for sure.

You live in the US so white people in the US are racist if we use the same context but you really don't know. You only assume.

You forget that the US is broken down into states. Cultures and races at some point were from countries on that side of the world. What may be true in one town is not always true in a city or another town. The same is true for cultures and states but you paint everyone in one country with the same brush because they're white and in the US. That's total BS and that offends me as a person that you would say that it's ok for some because they have an excuse yet I have no excuse because I live in the US and I'm white.

That's pretty pathetic. I wouldn't surround myself with 'that kind' of person. You're here defending an issue that supposedly people have an issue with something that they really don't care so much about. In your own words. So you decide who those people are and who the guilty party should be.

You see... THIS is why there is so much backlash over the backlash. You put down a people as a whole in one area and don't understand why they try to defend themselves. Don't you think that for the most part, if someone was racist they would embrace it? There may be some closet racist but those same people wouldn't be the ones saying "not me" in an anonymous setting like say, these forums. They simply wouldn't respond or they would say something in between the lines that you might get but no one else would. I'm offended that you would include me in a group that I know I don't belong in and probably so many more don't belong in.

Behind these aliases, everyone is just another persona to me and I judge by that persons words. Still, I only judge by that one response because in another thread it's a whole new day where I would judge the response or post differently. Opinions are like assholes... You know the saying. Still, I don't paint a people because of it. I'd have no idea if you were man or woman, black or white (or any other color) because colors of the same does not make a person the same as a similar color.

I know what your great grandparent went through. I know what my great grandparents went through. It was a travesty. You nor I went through what they did. We go through something of a MUCH lesser degree. If I hadn't, then I can't tell you to get over it. If I had, I have that right and so... I have that right. Racism is not just white on black. It goes both and so many more ways. If you're worried about what your parents think or your grandparents think, or your culture or surroundings... then you're taking a step backwards by allowing that history to become a cancer. A cancer that you will undoubtedly pass on to your children and THAT'S what keeps racism and bad habits alive, my friend.

originally posted by: bigfatfurrytexan
a reply to: Edumakated

Whereas there are many folks who think that is just flat out ridiculous, as the intent to offend was not there. Some folks just took it upon themselves to be offended anyway.

I get what you are saying. But it has to be balanced with logic and reason. If someone is overweight and they hear someone else talking about a big, fat beetle crawling by on the ground...the overweight person would be an imbecile to be offended at that.

And yet some are. And other still are so aware that they have to apologies for it because they feel like they have to walk on eggshells all their life. And others will also apologies for someone else's comments. The problem blossoms in so many ways.

Tex... We don't always agree but I will say you are indeed a source of wisdom. You make some very valid points.

I dont get this. The KID chose his hoodie, the parents signed off on it and were ok.

A white kid could have worn it and it would be ok.

A black kid wears it and everyone loses their minds.

Its not insensitive to ask people to get over the idea that their opinions arent important enough to impose on others.

If you are too sensitive you will see problems even within yourself. That doesnt necessarily mean they exist.

Screw over sensitive people.

a reply to: Edumakated

It is ironic though considering for a time, the hip hop community couldn't stop wearing BAPE (Bathing Ape) clothing brand...so to now act all outraged is a bit farcical.

I hate pointing this out because I get the impression that it'll ruffle your feathers.

The word "edumakated", where I'm from, is a term that has been used to make fun of black people. I wanted to make this a point earlier when I said what is one thing in one place is not always the same in another. It's not just a country by country thing. So the irony you speak of... based on what I saw around me growing up, reflects the same in your forum name.

originally posted by: StallionDuck
a reply to: Edumakated

It is ironic though considering for a time, the hip hop community couldn't stop wearing BAPE (Bathing Ape) clothing brand...so to now act all outraged is a bit farcical.

I hate pointing this out because I get the impression that it'll ruffle your feathers.

The word "edumakated", where I'm from, is a term that has been used to make fun of black people. I wanted to make this a point earlier when I said what is one thing in one place is not always the same in another. It's not just a country by country thing. So the irony you speak of... based on what I saw around me growing up, reflects the same in your forum name.

Yes, my name is somewhat of a inside joke among black folks.

a reply to: StallionDuck

You'll keep throwing issues at us and I'll keep defending and pointing out how hypocritical it is and give you good examples and reasons why it shouldn't be like that. It'll go around in a circle for times until one of us says "you don't matter". That's a pretty crappy way to go about it.

Who is the " us"..do you own or have stock in the corporation?? or sit on the advisory board?? My guess is no! And and again I'm not even putting the company on blast because they messed up, even if they knew exactly what they were doing, it had no baring on other presumably white folks not involved in it, but you are determined not look past your own lenses, if not throwing banana peels and making monkey noises at black folks or saying stuff like chimping out, it wouldn't be a thing, even if it was a bunch of random individuals, there is nothing much to do about that, however when influential corporations or individuals do it , that's taking it to a new level, pointing it out is the best way I know to make the unawares, aware .hey this thing is old and here is why it's not kool. After knowing what you now know, what you do with it is all up to you.

originally posted by: StallionDuck

originally posted by: bigfatfurrytexan
a reply to: Edumakated

Whereas there are many folks who think that is just flat out ridiculous, as the intent to offend was not there. Some folks just took it upon themselves to be offended anyway.

I get what you are saying. But it has to be balanced with logic and reason. If someone is overweight and they hear someone else talking about a big, fat beetle crawling by on the ground...the overweight person would be an imbecile to be offended at that.

And yet some are. And other still are so aware that they have to apologies for it because they feel like they have to walk on eggshells all their life. And others will also apologies for someone else's comments. The problem blossoms in so many ways.

Tex... We don't always agree but I will say you are indeed a source of wisdom. You make some very valid points.

Yeah, the fringe always seems to get caught up in the blades of a fan, tearing the whole piece of fabric.

originally posted by: Spider879
a reply to: MotherMayEye

And hence , I wonder what went wrong in the ad oversight meeting, like hey switch the black kid to the lion hoodie and the White kid to the monkey one, also some agencies like to push the envelope.
Another thing it may have made a slight difference if it was not featuring a kid.

Maybe it just never occurred to anyone in any meeting and never even made it to an agenda for discussion.

I think only perfect people can demand perfection from others. Are you perfect? I'm not. Can you say you treat others perfectly...always anticipating what others might be sensitive about and modifying your behavior accordingly to suit them?

Marketing people really do try to consider racial sensitivity unless they are marketing for a business built on profiting from outrageous, offensive, off-color services/products. I think that H&M deserves the benefit of the doubt..unless H&M has a history of racially insensitive advertising that warrants a cynical response. But I am not aware that they do.

Two issues at play here...one - stupidity. You have to know if you're doing marketing that that's going to cause an issue. and Two...fake outrage. in the end it's not that big of a deal and I don't think it was intentional racism. But in the end, if you're too braindead to figure out that that ad is going to offend people, then you're probably a very bad marketing to begin with. Needs a new profession. ASAP

originally posted by: Edumakated

originally posted by: MotherMayEye

originally posted by: Edumakated

I think with social media what happens is that opinions are easily expressed over a wide audience and it makes it seem like people care more than they actually do. The reason it probably seems like black people are making a big deal out of it is because to many of us, it is such an obvious screw up that in a way people find it so comical that the story is getting shared a lot.

Calling it a 'nearly comical screw up' is not making a big deal of it though. And it's a perfectly reasonable assessment.

The piling on does exaggerate the 'outrage,' I completely agree with that.

Plus, the news article I first read on it characterized the response as 'outrage' and 'backlash.' That doesn't help keep things in perspective.


***

Not to nag...but I really am curious if a white or black person gifted that onesie!

Honestly, I don't even remember if the person that gifted it was white. Truthfully, there are some monkey themed clothing our kid wears. However, there are some designs that are little more cringe worthy in how they create an offensive image. A monkey logo isn't all that offensive, but a shirt with Monkey written across it can be. It is nuanced.

It is ironic though considering for a time, the hip hop community couldn't stop wearing BAPE (Bathing Ape) clothing brand...so to now act all outraged is a bit farcical.

Well, whoever gifted it had good intentions, even if your wife had a justified uncomfortable response to the thought of putting it on your child. However-way 'monkeys' were themed on the onesie, it was enough to put her off though. But, I bet she never thought the giver was being thoughtless with the gift.

I don't think I would like myself if I expected every manufacturer and advertiser operate in consideration of my feelings or face my outrage and backlash. It's unreasonable and I'd be living every moment feeling slighted.

originally posted by: amazing
But in the end, if you're too braindead to figure out that that ad is going to offend people, then you're probably a very bad marketing to begin with. Needs a new profession. ASAP

Or maybe you just have a lot on your plate and it escaped your notice -- but otherwise you have a solid track record of being very sensitive to racial issues in your profession.

I don't think anyone should be fired or made to feel they need to find a new profession for an isolated incident like this, which killed and injured no one.

a reply to: MotherMayEye

No!! I can be damn insensitive at times, and perfect??.. heell no!! But I do take the time to listen and make adjustments, eg back in the day it was common for male folks of my generation to causually tout the word Fagg for just about anything and everyone, until someone call me on it ,as to why it's not kool, and I stopped, I told ma boyz to stop with fagg thing because there is harm behind it intentional or no and they got it too.

The younger generation today hardly ever use it unless they intend to cause offense.

originally posted by: MotherMayEye

originally posted by: amazing
But in the end, if you're too braindead to figure out that that ad is going to offend people, then you're probably a very bad marketing to begin with. Needs a new profession. ASAP

Or maybe you just have a lot on your plate and it escaped your notice -- but otherwise you have a solid track record of being very sensitive to racial issues in your profession.

I don't think anyone should be fired or made to feel they need to find a new profession for an isolated incident like this, which killed and injured no one.

I see what you're saying, but I think this is way more than a minor mistake. I would have picked up on it right away and changed the clothing or model. You have to be focused on every campaign you do. Marketing is all about getting people to buy your product and get your name out in a positive way. This does neither. I'm not calling for anyone to get fired but I think this person needs a career change.

originally posted by: Spider879
The young generation hardly ever use it unless the intend to cause offense.

You clearly don't play much online multiplayer XBox...

originally posted by: Spider879
a reply to: MotherMayEye

No!! I can be damn insensitive at times, and perfect heell no!! But I do take the time to listen and make adjustments, eg back in the day it was common for males folks of my generation to causually tout the word Fagg for just about anything and everyone, until someone call me on it ,as to why it's not kool, and I stopped, I told ma boyz to stop with fagg thing because there is harm behind it intentional or no and they got it too.

The young generation hardly ever use it unless the intend to cause offense.

I think H&M will make adjustments, too.

And I can relate to modifying language that I once used after gaining a greater understanding!

originally posted by: amazing

originally posted by: MotherMayEye

originally posted by: amazing
But in the end, if you're too braindead to figure out that that ad is going to offend people, then you're probably a very bad marketing to begin with. Needs a new profession. ASAP

Or maybe you just have a lot on your plate and it escaped your notice -- but otherwise you have a solid track record of being very sensitive to racial issues in your profession.

I don't think anyone should be fired or made to feel they need to find a new profession for an isolated incident like this, which killed and injured no one.

I see what you're saying, but I think this is way more than a minor mistake. I would have picked up on it right away and changed the clothing or model. You have to be focused on every campaign you do. Marketing is all about getting people to buy your product and get your name out in a positive way. This does neither. I'm not calling for anyone to get fired but I think this person needs a career change.

I think that's harsh, but it's your opinion, not mine.

originally posted by: burdman30ott6

originally posted by: Spider879
The young generation hardly ever use it unless the intend to cause offense.

You clearly don't play much online multiplayer XBox...

Hah! No I don't, but maybe they meant to cause offense??..

originally posted by: MotherMayEye

originally posted by: Spider879
a reply to: MotherMayEye

No!! I can be damn insensitive at times, and perfect heell no!! But I do take the time to listen and make adjustments, eg back in the day it was common for males folks of my generation to causually tout the word Fagg for just about anything and everyone, until someone call me on it ,as to why it's not kool, and I stopped, I told ma boyz to stop with fagg thing because there is harm behind it intentional or no and they got it too.

The young generation hardly ever use it unless the intend to cause offense.

I think H&M will make adjustments, too.

And I can relate to modifying language that I once used after gaining a greater understanding!

Yup the good ole learning curve..

originally posted by: Spider879

originally posted by: burdman30ott6

originally posted by: Spider879
The young generation hardly ever use it unless the intend to cause offense.

You clearly don't play much online multiplayer XBox...

Hah! No I don't, but maybe they meant to cause offense??..

I don't think so. I think they simply feel above reproach when online in a relatively anonymous environment. The "younger generation" (by which I also mean what I would consider children) vocally use slurs online to a degree I've certainly never encountered in any real life setting, and I've spent time around some pretty rough folks in my days. I'm sort of in between Generation X and Millenials, so I missed the days when you could pretty much say whatever you wanted with no reproach, but also didn't grow up in the hypersensitive "words are more dangerous than knives" fiasco of the past decade. It seems like the generation that is following the Millenials have pendulum swung back towards a mental model that allows one to speak their true mind, slurs and all, so long as they can do so under a cloak of internet anonymity.