I hate all images of people smoking cigarettes

a reply to: TiredofControlFreaks

And smoking does not take the bad years off your life. It just brings those bad years sooner.

a reply to: neutronflux

Did you even read my post?

... or are you just imagining what you think people are arguing against you?... because it was like you were responding to an entirely different post... and you still haven't responded or addressed a single one of my actual points (not your made up points).

So you are down to it’s ok to be underhand because other people are?

What?!? I never even vaguely said that... I was making the point that big tobacco isn't unique to big corporations in general, especially these days... massive stretch by you, and trying to ascribe to my words that I accept and support big tobacco lying and being underhanded, which I don't.

And how does cigarette smoke, and the know toxins it contains, not fit the definition of poisonous for the smoker?

A single cigarette is absolutely not poisonous... you are stretching definitions again. Did you know that salt is poisonous with the correct dosage? lots of things are "poison", but we still ingest and breath them all every day, because in small amounts, they are not poison, some are even vital to survival.

Again quote where I said people should not have the choice to smoke.

Ummm... never said that you said that. Are you alright? Were you responding to a different post? Seems you're quite confused.

That doesn’t give big tobacco the right to miss lead and conspire to hid the dangerous of smoking. Sorry, you don’t come across for standing up for freedom. You come across as being apologetic, sympathetic, and as lobbyists for large corrupt big tobacco. And it is very sad. Again, is it true to say big tobacco engaged in behavior that ATS tries to expose.

You are referring to behaviour that happened 20 years ago by big tobacco... and again, no one has actually once defended or supported that behaviour of big tobacco in this thread, it was unethical. However selling cigarettes if people want to buy them is still a right and legal, just like selling alcohol is. Did you know you can kill yourself much quicker and definitevely so with alcohol... no such link to any direct cause of death has ever been made with tobacco smoke.

These days you barely hear a peep from tobacco companies, positive or negative.

I would personally prefer to grow my own tobacco, but the government has made the penalties even worse than growing marijuana, so much so that it is not worth the risk. If you grow your own and are caught, they charge you with a range of offenses including tax evasion and fraud.

Excess is always the killer, not moderation. A couple cigarettes here and there is not as bad as you or the anti-smoking lobby are trying to make it out to be, just like a few beers here and there isn't fatal either.

a reply to: puzzlesphere

Look at the way they use the term poisonous...

You notice how it's as simplistic and completely divorced from reality as when you hear kids talking about poison / poisonous stuff amongst themselves while playing with each other.

They keep throwing out that their stance is what ats is about while conveniently forgetting that the actual site motto is DENY IGNORANCE!

The absolute first step in denying ignorance is gaining a basic working knowledge of the subject you are delving into.

It's impossible to be anything but completely ignorant and easily lead around by the nose when you have no working knowledge of the subject and NO INTEREST WHATSOEVER IN CHANGING THIS!

They if anything should be congratulated on being such an amazing and pure example of irredeemable and TOTAL IGNORANCE

Seriously their posts should be stickied at the top of each sub forum under the heading THIS IS WHAT IGNORANCE LOOKS LIKE with comprehensive fiskings of the posts and footnotes going into detail.

It's unbelievably sad and discouraging to see someone purporting to be an adult who is arguing on and on and hammering at others all but calling them ignorant shills / paid trolls outright when they themselves have so little understanding of the actual subject at hand that they use the term poisonous with exactly the same level of understanding and etc of poison and poisonous things as your average 9 year old

One, who is they?

Two....
Idea? Start a new thread on your belief how big tobacco conspired to increase how addictive their products are is just a lie.

Then throw in your belief big tobacco conspired to hide the dangers of their products is a lie.

Just big tobacco with honest advertising.

Then throw In it’s a vast conspiracy the below list of chemicals found in processed tobacco are not poisonous, but fake propaganda. It’s not big tobacco shelling out millions to lobbyists for propaganda, but the true propaganda is the health studies that document the dangerous of smoking?

So these chemicals are not poisonous to the lungs which normally weigh under 4 pound?

www.lung.org...


Here are a few of the chemicals in tobacco smoke and other places they are found:

Acetone – found in nail polish remover
Acetic Acid – an ingredient in hair dye
Ammonia – a common household cleaner
Arsenic – used in rat poison
Benzene – found in rubber cement
Butane – used in lighter fluid
Cadmium – active component in battery acid
Carbon Monoxide – released in car exhaust fumes
Formaldehyde – embalming fluid
Hexamine – found in barbecue lighter fluid
Lead – used in batteries
Naphthalene – an ingredient in mothballs
Methanol – a main component in rocket fuel
Nicotine – used as insecticide
Tar – material for paving roads
Toluene - used to manuf

The world needs to know of your belief how big tobacco is the victim. That is what ATS is for, posting threads to expose lies?

a reply to: puzzlesphere

Your defense of big tobacco is so pitiful.

One, show where big tobacco has not engaged in fraudulent claims concerning the dangers of their products. Sorry, you come off as taking a stance it’s ok because others are guilty.

Two, please show how cigarette smoke containing known poisons is not poisonous to the smoker.

www.dictionary.com...
poisonous
[poi-zuh-nuh s]
adjective
full of or containing poison:
poisonous air; a poisonous substance.
harmful; destructive:
poisonous to animals; poisonous rumors.

Cigarettes that contain nicotine, tar, and carbon monoxide, as well as formaldehyde, ammonia, hydrogen cyanide, arsenic, and DDT are poisonous by definition. Especially for the organ that draws in the smoke, the lungs, which don’t even weigh 4 pounds.

Three, you keep going on how I am anti smoking. Again, quote where I ever said people should not have that choice.

Four, government comes down hard on you growing our own tobacco? So the government/tobacco loyalists/big tobacco conspired to exploit an addictive produce and conspired to profit from it? Seems the things ATS takes a stance against is still in place? Or you just stated another false argument?

www.hunker.com...
Most tobacco consumed in the U.S. grows on large commercial farms and sold by a few corporations. However, home growing for personal use is still legal in most areas. Homeowners who wish to plant a few tobacco plants should take the time to learn federal, state and local rules about their crop.

WHY GROW YOUR OWN TOBACCO ?

www.tobaccoseed.ca...

Stop paying ridiculous prices for your cigarettes, cigars or pipe tobacco, by growing your own tobacco, you can smoke for about $10.00 a week or less. Surprisingly, not many people know that's it's perfectly legal to grow your own tobacco for ones own consumption. Take a look at some of the free extras you get when you buy ready-made tobacco products.

Why does Your stance require ignoring the power of big tobacco, their fraudulent ways, big tobacco manipulates their products, the government/tobacco/lobbyists connection, ignoring that by definition cigarettes are poisonous to the 4 pound organ that takes in the smoke, and right out false arguments?

a reply to: neutronflux

You're delusional dude. No-one ever claimed defense of tobacco companies, you are making it up.

No-one here is defending tobacco companies, no-one has said that there aren't chemicals in smokes that can be poisonous at a high enough dosage (poison is all about dosage, and dosages in a cigarette are infinitesimally small... I linked to a study that showed toxicology levels of chemicals and cigs are well below safe levels... you never commented on that research)... (though everything has chemicals, for instance, here's some other chemicals you take every day:

Typical Tap Water Content:

• Chlorine.
  
• Fluorine compounds.
  
• Trihalomethanes (THMs)
  
• Salts of: arsenic. radium. aluminium. copper. lead. mercury. cadmium. barium.
  
• Hormones.
  
• Nitrates.
  
• Pesticides.
  

)... you are quite obviously anti-smoking, but no-one ever accused you of not allowing choice (though the anti-smoking sentiment is achieving that for you without you having to, since gov is denying that choice in increasing incursions into freedoms)... I live in Australia, where tobacco plants are considered a controlled substance, didn't realise it was fine in the US... but whatever.

It's impossible to have discourse with you because you refuse to actually read and comprehend people's posts, and seem to see insults aimed you from people when there are none... you are just coming across as an angry anti-smoker, close minded to anything other than the demonisation of tobacco.

I'm done with trying to converse with you.

a reply to: dfnj2015

Do you have the same aversion to seeing people drink alcohol? causes just as much, if not more issues....

I'll never understand the attraction of smoking, but if people want to kill themselves, who am I to deny them what they want? Live and let live...as long as they don't blow it near me, we're cool.

a reply to: Gazrok

So I assume that you take responsibility for the fumes of your car exhaust and are especially careful not to expose others?

a reply to: TiredofControlFreaks

Hardly comparable. Cigarettes are absolute concentrated poison on demand. Not tobacco, not cigars, not pipes; cigarettes exclusively. I get sinus infections if somone comes anywhere near me with that #. My ears ring, I lose my voice and breath immediately. Yet I can roll my own, pipes smell great, cigars same as pipes.

Cigarettes are not equivalent to tobacco. They are intentionally poisoning you and those around you. Some brands are far worse than others. Its not natural tobacco, its tobacco inspired disease sticks. I honestly have no idea how someone can smoke a synthetic tobacco prerolled chemical stick.

"The goy don't self teach"

So I assume that you take responsibility for the fumes of your car exhaust and are especially careful not to expose others?

funny, I thought we were talking about cigarettes. And no, I strive to not park my truck to where the exhaust is blowing in folks' faces, but if they want to sit next to the road traffic and breathe deeply, who am I to stop them?

misdirection is rarely a successful debate tool.

originally posted by: RickyD
a reply to: dfnj2015

Wonderful thing about choice is you can choose not to look at offensive things =D

How on earth are you supposed know it's offensive without firstly looking at it?

a reply to: Gazrok

So then its ok for corportions to outgas their toxins in the air?

If a person's complaining about cigarette smoke then I hope they don't use any form of transport that uses petrol e.c.t otherwise there's hypocrisy afoot. I vape and I also vape my herbs.

So then its ok for corportions to outgas their toxins in the air?

More misdirection attempts.

What's next?

"So, it's OK to fart in my general direction?"

"So, it's OK if my father smelled of elderberries?"

a reply to: Gazrok

please explain to me what gives you the right to made demands on the normal activities of other people?

No misdirection - just a challenge.

What makes you so important?

Challenge accepted!

That's just it, I'm NOT about making demands...I'm all for letting others smoke.

Perhaps you are confusing me with another poster?

Please point to where I'm making demands.....do YOU accept the challenge?

originally posted by: Gazrok
a reply to: dfnj2015

Do you have the same aversion to seeing people drink alcohol? causes just as much, if not more issues....

I'll never understand the attraction of smoking, but if people want to kill themselves, who am I to deny them what they want? Live and let live...as long as they don't blow it near me, we're cool.

Challenge accepted!


You are the poster who believes he has the right to control the normal human actions of others. You believe that you can demand that "no one blow cigarette smoker near me"

Is correct?

You have, in fact, usurped government powers of enforcement, to enforce your right "not to be exposed to the smoke of others" even in someone's private property (bars and restaurants, offices etc). You have, in general demanded a right without any kind of responsibility (for financial loss).

a reply to: TiredofControlFreaks

I don't like loud rock and roll music.

It affects my health. It gives me headaches and affects my hearing long term.

Your demand not to be affected by the cigarette smoke of others (in someone else's private property) is the exact same equivilent as me demanding government regulation to limit the sound level in every bar in the country.

I should not have to exposed to the thoughtless music tastes of other people

a reply to: TiredofControlFreaks

You see Gazrok, you proclaim yourself to be tolerant but in fact, you are not! You strongly support limiting the activities of others simply because you don't like them.