Botulism or what?

a reply to: rickymouse

Thanks for your reply. I will post any further news when it comes.

Happy solstice every one.

a reply to: intrptr

It's a toxin, but it's not botulism. Botulism toxin does not require the actual bacteria present to make you deathly ill. That's how botox works. It's micro amounts of the botulism toxin, but whatever was in the pork was anti-life basically, enough so that it prevented the food from being attacked by the normal bacteria that cause decay. And it somehow permeated the all of the meat.

It really begs the question of where they got this meat. Was this boar actually walking around?

a reply to: ketsuko

Good point was it alive before they killed it or did they find it dead. Some people are also wondering if the boar had 1080 poisoning which we use to kill possum and rats. I know it's banned in other countries. There is a big anti 1080 movement in nz but The establishment won't even consider testing for 1080 which seem suspicious to me, . And then there is Go Slow which is a disease dogs get from eating raw wild boar. Anyways

a reply to: Cloudbuster

It was most likely Botulism, as it was wild pork that they were eating, and Botulism toxin is one of the most virulent poisons out there. It is very odd, but at the same time it was almost certainly the pork as the kids did not eat it, and were fine.

originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: intrptr

It's a toxin, but it's not botulism. Botulism toxin does not require the actual bacteria present to make you deathly ill. That's how botox works. It's micro amounts of the botulism toxin, but whatever was in the pork was anti-life basically, enough so that it prevented the food from being attacked by the normal bacteria that cause decay. And it somehow permeated the all of the meat.

It really begs the question of where they got this meat. Was this boar actually walking around?

Botulism, a bacteria, produces the toxin that kills. Not cooking the meat enough could have helped. Imo, onset of symptoms was too rapid for it to be only bacteria.

a reply to: intrptr

Yeah it seems far too rapid, however bacterium have a habit of mutating from time to time, or individuals are more susceptible. Or as the article says, dose is important, if they got a large dose of botulism toxin... it will act much faster, I'm not sure how high a dose it would take however.

originally posted by: Noinden
a reply to: intrptr

Yeah it seems far too rapid, however bacterium have a habit of mutating from time to time, or individuals are more susceptible. Or as the article says, dose is important, if they got a large dose of botulism toxin... it will act much faster, I'm not sure how high a dose it would take however.

The meat would have to be rotting or undercooked, sitting for a long time.

But they said (they sayers) the meat wasn't spoiled when they got back. That could be preservatives.

I dunno.

a reply to: intrptr

Preservatives??? In wild pork. How the hell did those get there then?

New Zealand sadly uses 1080 ( Sodium fluoroacetate) to try and eradicate vermin (mostly Possums from Australia, but wild pigs are also a pest (thanks Captain Cook ....)). Its a nasty poison too, as it disrupts the Citric Acid Cylcle, very early on, that is a metabolic pathway for respiration if that helps?

It is toxic in a 0.5-2.0mg/kg level in humans, with effects like: convulsions, vomiting, cardiac failure and respiratory failure (all those are the lethal dosages) and subleathal dosages include damage to organs. Honestly that does not sound like this. Other poisons are used too.

The symptoms mostly fit botulism poisoning, but hey who knows. We don't have venomous species here (two spiders, which are non lethal).

originally posted by: hopenotfeariswhatweneed
a reply to: Cloudbuster

Bizarre, I wonder what kind of toxin would be present in wild boar, and who the hell eats wild boar anyways, to me that's straight out of an asterix comic.

There is plenty of Wild Boar to be had if you know anyone within the Forest of Dean in Gloucestershire. The things are breeding so fast people can't shoot them fast enough

a reply to: SprocketUK

Yes except this is New Zealand where it happened, and we're not quite that over populated with the wild pigs (it was really pigs not boar).

a reply to: Noinden

Oh, thanks for the clarification. Nobody mentioned poison control before.

So how come they didn't died and why didn't the meat spoil in the fridge?

Not ruling out undercooking it either.

originally posted by: Noinden
a reply to: SprocketUK

Yes except this is New Zealand where it happened, and we're not quite that over populated with the wild pigs (it was really pigs not boar).

It as just in reference to the Asterix thing.
I thought wild pig was a major thing down there though.

a reply to: intrptr

Ok so to begin with, its total supposition that the meat did not spoil. They'd be stupid to eat it again to test it. If it was wild pork, they either killed it, or it was given to them. IF its the latter... I'd be wondering about the person who gave it to them. Now as there has not been (I can assure you that no reports have happened here) of anyone else having this sort of issue, its got to be them who got the pork. It could be they killed a very sick piggy.

New Zealand uses a lot of 1080, I'm not a fan of it, but hey thats what they use. I had to keep my cats inside, and muzzel my dog for months when they did a program of erradication near where I live. The animals when poisoned, get thirsty and die near rivers, and the bodies get washed down stream. We were warned to not let our pets get these bodies, as they could still be toxic.

a reply to: SprocketUK

Yeah I missed the Asterix bit (sleep deprived thanks to my 11 month old)... I'm a fan...doh

Wild pigs are a pest down here, Captain Cook and other explorers introduced them. But they are not as a big a pest as the Australians (Possums) and rabbits. But yes we hunt a lot of piggies. In my stupid late teens/early 20s a group of us went spear hunting pigs. I got over that fast. I am thankful for pig dogs, and good luck, and lets leave it at that.

a reply to: ManBehindTheMask

Not wild game , just wild boar ,I didn't think people are it anymore for some unknown reason.

a reply to: Noinden

Ok so to begin with, its total supposition that the meat did not spoil. They'd be stupid to eat it again to test it.

I may have misread again. The article said something about when the people got back from the hospital everything in the fridge was spoiled except the pork(?)

I agree, theres something missing form the story. I like your idea about the poison better. They would try to cover that up. Only someone knowledgeable would know that, like you.

a reply to: intrptr

Yep, except how do they know it was not spoiled. I'd be not going near that stuff. Also cooked meat "spoils" differently than uncooked meat. What else was in there? So with out evidence of it not being spoiled, I'd say its not evidence of anything. ALSO if botulism is what the health board thinks got them, chances are they removed all that meat for study. It is a public safety thing.

To be honest New Zealand almost never covers stuff up, so I don't see a cover up. I see bad reporting, or an ongoing investigation. But New Zealand ranks as one of the least corrupt nations in the world.

originally posted by: Noinden
a reply to: intrptr

Yep, except how do they know it was not spoiled. I'd be not going near that stuff. Also cooked meat "spoils" differently than uncooked meat. What else was in there? So with out evidence of it not being spoiled, I'd say its not evidence of anything. ALSO if botulism is what the health board thinks got them, chances are they removed all that meat for study. It is a public safety thing.

To be honest New Zealand almost never covers stuff up, so I don't see a cover up. I see bad reporting, or an ongoing investigation. But New Zealand ranks as one of the least corrupt nations in the world.

I like New Zealand. If it weren't for the fact the whole place is one giant Volcano, I'd move there.

a reply to: intrptr

I would be more worried about earthquakes than volcanoes

It is very unlikely that such rapid onset is due to a living organism in the food. That takes time, varying to be sure, but time none the less. Chemical contamination or some fast acting natural toxin seem much more likely. Even parasites wont act that fast on people. If the boar had been bitten by a snake and you just happened to cut and cook that particular piece of meat, that could be an explanation. I am curious as to what the final answer will be. I hope everyone has recovered and is ok.