Mental Illness is a MYTH : Witchcraft and Power Politics in Medicine

originally posted by: dashen
a reply to: muzzleflash

I thought this subject through many times because I have had to deal with many forms of other people's mental disorders. While I agree with you that the stigma and abuse in the mental health care system in America is horrible that is until you have met people who are truly a danger to themselves and others.
Although many psychiatrists are using people as guinea pigs with hit-or-miss medication strategies that does not mean that neurological chemical adjustment is totally useless. Many people have found help by controlling their out of whack neuroreceptors or lithium or Gabapentin or Ritalin. Unfortunately over prescription and misdiagnosis has run rampant in the system and put many people through much unnecessary suffering and side effects. What you posted in your updated posts was not necessary for me to read as I am quite familiar with the United States mental health system and have many friends who went through it. One of my friends who is now deceased was even the psychotherapist for the Son of Sam in prison.
Just try and convince anybody that David Berkowitz is a normal misunderstood guy

A serial killer is making a conscious decision to kill people for whatever reason they believe justifies it.

You saying they are mentally ill is a cop out and is basically saying they are innocent of their crimes because they were diseased.

I disagree vehemently with that ideology. All criminals are technically insane (and or stupid) because committing crimes is not a logical rational thing to do.

And of course if you pump someone full of poisons that damage the brain they will eventually shut up and become a zombie. That doesn't mean anyone cured them of anything.

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
Well yeah... That's just a symptom of science evolving and updating its outlook with new information. Why is it surprising that science has become more comprehensive over time?

Science or particular social groups?

Some people thought Hitler was a Guinness, others a madman.

Some think the same of Trump. Some think the same of the Clinton's.

And on and on.

It's amazing how far a crazy person, in charge of large groups, can get them to do just about anything. Look at Religion for example, some will follow it, and even give their collective lives for it, is this mental illness, or faith?

Labels in our society are subjective to beliefs, and supposed social norms, but what's normal? Again subjective.

originally posted by: TheMZA
This whole thing is on par with saying the flat earth theory is a load of BS so earth is obviously fake

i

Excellent point. Leaving the academic gobbleygook aside what we have, really, is a set of parameters in which members of any society and culture are expected to perform. Each culture has a different set of parameters, so some can tolerate different deviant behavior than others, but there is still a spectrum of behavior that is not only considered normal, but is necessary for the culture to survive. Some members of society deviate from accepted norms to the point that it creates sufficient issues to deem them "mentally ill." Sometimes the cause is physical, i.e.: some sort of brain imbalance, that psychiatry can sometimes solve, and sometimes it has nothing to do with the physical brain, at least not that we can detect. It doesn't really matter.

Now the liberal mindset comes along and says something like this: "Any culture that creates nuclear weapons is by definition crazy, therefore mental illness is a reaction to a crazy culture, etc. and they go on a rant R.D. Laing style. But that whole argument is irrelevant. The crazy are still crazy. I would suggest to you that most people who lobby for this liberal position have never been around truly crazy people. They have not witnessed how truly ineffectual and out of touch the crazy are. They cannot survive society. They cannot function. Do you get that? THEY CANNOT FUNCTION NORMALLY. THEY MUST BE TENDED, and that means the culture must take care of them completely. No amount of claiming the crazy are simply misunderstood will change that. Mainstreaming these folks simply creates more chaos for everyone. Every deviant behavior is NOT ok, and until we come to terms with that we can expect the chaos to continue.

originally posted by: Krazysh0t

originally posted by: muzzleflash
Suggested reading materials from a few psychiatrists and psychoanalysts:

Thomas Szasz :
The Myth of Mental Illness (1961)
The Manufacture of Madness (1970)

Except for a few identifiable brain diseases, such as Alzheimer's disease, there are "neither biological or chemical tests nor biopsy or necropsy findings for verifying or falsifying DSM diagnoses", i.e., there are no objective methods for detecting the presence or absence of mental illness.[5]

His views on special treatment followed from libertarian roots, based on the principles that each person has the right to bodily and mental self-ownership and the right to be free from violence from others

R. D. Laing:
The Divided Self - An Existential Study in Sanity and Madness (1960)
Self and Others (1961)
The Politics of Experience and The Bird of Paradise (1967)

Laing's views on the causes and treatment of serious mental dysfunction, greatly influenced by existential philosophy, ran counter to the psychiatric orthodoxy of the day by taking the expressed feelings of the individual patient or client as valid descriptions of lived experience rather than simply as symptoms of some separate or underlying disorder.

And a Youtube vid to get you started on all the videos you can find out there:

Are you serious with this tripe? All your sources are 40 years old or more. Who listens to ANY science that is 40 years old?

The age of a truth has no bearing on it's validity.
Nuclear reactors were devised way more than 40 years ago and are still viable.

You need to actually address my argument directly rather than attack it because it's "old". Truth is timeless.

a reply to: muzzleflash

I love how you interchange mental illness with mental disease (and at one point, brain damage), when you clearly don’t understand any of it.

Let me guess. You got diagnosed with something and you’re not happy about it?

a reply to: muzzleflash

All criminals are technically insane

Anyone else starting to think that the OP does not know what insane means?

I committed a crime once, I was speeding.

am I insane?

originally posted by: TerryDon79
a reply to: muzzleflash

I love how you interchange mental illness with mental disease (and at one point, brain damage), when you clearly don’t understand any of it.

Let me guess. You got diagnosed with something and you’re not happy about it?

Now that is a very good question.

OP has a medical professional ever told you that you have some kind of mental illness/disease?

originally posted by: OtherSideOfTheCoin

originally posted by: muzzleflash

originally posted by: OtherSideOfTheCoin
a reply to: muzzleflash

I'm talking about 'mental illness' as an actual disease that can be diagnosed and treated chemically, like heart disease or a fungal infection on your foot.

There's no such thing.

Bollocks!

I know you didn't actually read my OP now.

Sigh....
If you can't read my OP than I'm thinking you should get lost.

I did read it and I think its bullocks.

Now that is only my opinion but I can tell from just the first couple of pages of comments so far in this thread that very few members seem to agree with your statement that mental illness is a myth.

Question:

Are you stating as a fact, that mental illness is a myth?

I am stating that it is the reality, I used facts and reasoned argument to support it.

It doesn't matter how many people agree or disagree with reality - it doesn't take a vote and change at the whims of the mob.

a reply to: muzzleflash

I am stating that it is the reality, I used facts and reasoned argument to support it.

You used your opinion. An opinion that has been shown to be incorrect.

a reply to: muzzleflash

I am stating that it is the reality, I used facts and reasoned argument to support it.

Well the entire medical/psychiatric/neuroscientific community and just about anyone who has ever had a mental health problem disagrees with you and your forty year old evidence.

dp

originally posted by: OtherSideOfTheCoin

Now that is a very good question.

OP has a medical professional ever told you that you have some kind of mental illness/disease?

Um it's against ATS T & C to pigeon-hole an ATS member like you guys are trying to do.

originally posted by: andy06shake
a reply to: muzzleflash

Like it says on the tin "Insanity is a perfectly rational adjustment to an insane world".

It's the paradigm Humanity has followed throughout recorded history that's insane.

Nonsensical really, and a product of our very limited longevity thus longterm perspective.

Hence the reason the insanity is repeated time and time again, generation after generation by way of our repeated transgressions towards one another and point blank refusal to accept responsibility for our actions or learn from history.

What was it old Albert said, "Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results". That pretty much sums up Humans in a nutshell really.

As to mental health being a myth through, if only it were that easy to dispell or address such issues.

Thanks Andy for the good post.

I wish it were easier to dispel, but I'm doing what I can with what I have available. I do understand that it is extremely offensive to some people because they are so deeply ingrained into the mythology.

I know it's not a fight I'll win overnight, and in fact it will take a long time for the seeds I'm planting today to finally sprout and grow.

But one day down the line people will look back, after thinking this through much more deeply, and will get why I wrote this today and will probably agree to a large extent based upon their own reasoning.

originally posted by: Krazysh0t

originally posted by: OtherSideOfTheCoin
It must be true because someone on the interwebs said so

It's ATS' newest motto. Instead of Deny Ignorance; it's Confirm Your Biases.

I'm still sticking with Deny Ignorance.

I do appreciate the fact that you guys changed it.
But I'm not the type to follow the crowd.

originally posted by: Realtruth

originally posted by: OtherSideOfTheCoin

Now that is a very good question.

OP has a medical professional ever told you that you have some kind of mental illness/disease?

Um it's against ATS T & C to pigeon-hole an ATS member like you guys are trying to do.

Not pigeon holing.

There’s been a few diagnosed members (they admitted it themselves) on here who have said that certain medical sciences aren’t real. As if stating it isn’t real somehow changes what’s up with them.

originally posted by: Realtruth

originally posted by: OtherSideOfTheCoin

Now that is a very good question.

OP has a medical professional ever told you that you have some kind of mental illness/disease?

Um it's against ATS T & C to pigeon-hole an ATS member like you guys are trying to do.

I don't think it is against T&Cs to ask if a member has ever had a mental illness diagnosis.

If it is then please go find a mod.

originally posted by: TerryDon79

originally posted by: Realtruth

originally posted by: OtherSideOfTheCoin

Now that is a very good question.

OP has a medical professional ever told you that you have some kind of mental illness/disease?

Um it's against ATS T & C to pigeon-hole an ATS member like you guys are trying to do.

Not pigeon holing.

There’s been a few diagnosed members (they admitted it themselves) on here who have said that certain medical sciences aren’t real. As if stating it isn’t real somehow changes what’s up with them.

Unless they admit and talk about it, we can't collectively assume, or even ask publicly I believe.

a reply to: muzzleflash

Do you not see though how its a bit silly to write a thread saying that mental illness is a myth?

What did you expect that everyone was going to stop taking their meds and hang on your every word.

originally posted by: Realtruth

originally posted by: TerryDon79

originally posted by: Realtruth

originally posted by: OtherSideOfTheCoin

Now that is a very good question.

OP has a medical professional ever told you that you have some kind of mental illness/disease?

Um it's against ATS T & C to pigeon-hole an ATS member like you guys are trying to do.

Not pigeon holing.

There’s been a few diagnosed members (they admitted it themselves) on here who have said that certain medical sciences aren’t real. As if stating it isn’t real somehow changes what’s up with them.

Unless they admit and talk about it, we can't collectively assume, or even ask publicly I believe.

Nope we can.

They don't have to answer but we can ask.

There is nothing that covers asking about mental health in the T&Cs.

Check if you don't believe me.

EDIT:

There is a clause that prohibits discussing suicide but thats about it.

a reply to: muzzleflash

The friends of mine who actually received proper medication for their problem became very productive and well-adjusted members of society. They remained very lucid and non zombie like . Some mental behavioral problems are caused by natural imbalances in neurotransmitters . Others are caused by mental trauma as I said earlier I have found that you cannot treat trauma-related mental issues with drugs very effectively in the long term