Mental Illness is a MYTH : Witchcraft and Power Politics in Medicine

originally posted by: muzzleflash

originally posted by: OtherSideOfTheCoin
a reply to: muzzleflash

Dude you obviously have no experience or qualifications in working with or caring for individuals with mental illness.

Honestly I go back to what I said pages ago, this whole thread feels like you stubbled across a Youtube video and were just looking for something interesting to post.

Its backfired on you because there are a lot of people on ATS who work in healthcare or who themselves have mental illness and just know more about this than you do.

You're making a huge argument from authority there.

Fail.

Thats not a fail thats me saying to you that because of my experience and qualifications in working with people with mental illness I can only conclude that you are wrong.

What is a "fail" is you admitting through omission that you don't know the first thing about mental illness other than what you have posted in your OP.

The best metaphor I can come up with is that this would be a bit like me starting a thread saying that all planes can fly themselves with out needing any pilot then saying that the members who are pilots who tell me that I am wrong are attacking me personally.

ITs a bit of a daft argument.

originally posted by: muzzleflash

originally posted by: Realtruth

originally posted by: TerryDon79
a reply to: muzzleflash

It's a choice every time they have a drink. 100% a choice.

So now addiction is a choice?

According to one experts it is.

One person, the therapist, tries to influence another person, the patient, to change their values and behavior. While the conversation called therapy can be helpful, most of the conversation that occurs in therapy based on the disease model is potentially harmful.

This is because the therapist misleads the patient into believing something that is simply untrue--that addiction is a disease, and, therefore, addicts cannot control their behavior. Preaching this falsehood to patients may encourage them to abandon any attempt to take responsibility for their actions.

www.psychiatrictimes.com...

I'm going to win this debate, just wait.
I actually do know what I'm talking about and I will come out on top.

Mental Illness is a Myth $$$

I'll be patient.

I see how it is now.

It’s not about being right or wrong. It’s purely about winning.

originally posted by: TerryDon79
a reply to: muzzleflash

Was that an ad hom?

That’s at least 2 I’ve counted from you, yet you say others are attacking you?

You do understand that things have changed A LOT in medicine in the last 50 years, right?

Just because some things changed in medicine (legitimately) doesn't mean that a blatant mythology suddenly became real. There are tons of different subjects under the heading medicine, you can't just assume that when one field advances that all other fields are suddenly legitimate and are advancing on an equal pace.

Not to be facetious or anything, but those little red ones are just aqua bath beads, and they dont get you high

originally posted by: muzzleflash

originally posted by: Realtruth

originally posted by: TerryDon79
a reply to: muzzleflash

It's a choice every time they have a drink. 100% a choice.

So now addiction is a choice?

According to one experts it is.

One person, the therapist, tries to influence another person, the patient, to change their values and behavior. While the conversation called therapy can be helpful, most of the conversation that occurs in therapy based on the disease model is potentially harmful.

This is because the therapist misleads the patient into believing something that is simply untrue--that addiction is a disease, and, therefore, addicts cannot control their behavior. Preaching this falsehood to patients may encourage them to abandon any attempt to take responsibility for their actions.

www.psychiatrictimes.com...

I'm going to win this debate, just wait.
I actually do know what I'm talking about and I will come out on top.

Mental Illness is a Myth $$$

I'll be patient.

And this is how ignorance breeds.

This absurd idea that its not about being correct its about winning or losing

a reply to: muzzleflash

Yet you haven’t even come close to proving it’s a myth. The ONLY things you have, is your opinion and outdated science.

originally posted by: Butterfinger
Not to be facetious or anything, but those little red ones are just aqua bath beads, and they dont get you high

Yeah but see those orange ones......

Regardless how this thread is turning out, this is something that needs to be talked about more than politics.

Our world, especially the USA is in big trouble with mental issues. We only have to look at our 24/7 news briefs to figure it out, if we had a stable society, we'd see the majority of people living in relative happiness, and peace, however that is not the case.

We don't even need to look very far, but rather close to home to see things are off.

originally posted by: muzzleflash

originally posted by: TerryDon79
a reply to: muzzleflash

Incorrect.
Everyone is just THAT uneducated.

But I would like you to show me what mental illnesses our top philosophers and scientists have - but it needs an official diagnosis - speculation isn't convincing.

John Forbes Nash Jr, Nobel Prize winner. Diagnosed with schizophrenia.

Kind of blows that out of the water.

Not really. Being super educated in math or geometry doesn't mean you have any clue how to cope with emotional issues or how to deal with pressure or stress.

So therefore he was uneducated in dealing with these issues.

He could be the ultimate mathematician but not know anything about feelings or how to work them out.

My forte is in the physical sciences but my wife studied Psychiatry and my brother in law was a pHd Psychological theoretician, published author and clinician (he actually ran a number of Psychiatric centres in the US, UK and New Zealand).

As such, I probably have a fairly good understanding of psychological science.

Yet I still suffered from depression and sought professional help (not from my wife or brother in law as they felt they could not be objective enough in their assessments).

And, despite some issues along the way, I was able to resolve my situation acceptably, with assistance.

a reply to: chr0naut

Thats a cool story and all bro.... but according to the OP its a myth and because someone on the internet said your mental illness is a myth then it must be true.

Stop lying!!!!

originally posted by: TerryDon79
a reply to: muzzleflash

Yet you haven’t even come close to proving it’s a myth. The ONLY things you have, is your opinion and outdated science.

So you're admitting that science WAS VALID at some point in recent times?

What made it suddenly not valid? And what year did it become invalid? 1984?

a reply to: muzzleflash

I made an excellent initial argument to set the stage for a debate over those claims.

You absolutely did no such thing.

Your entire premise is based on the idea that some of the foul practices associated with mental health treatment in the past somehow proves that mental illness is a myth.

& that is just so fantastically wrong, I don’t even really want to get into “debate” about it.

However I will. Because your asinine opinion is reckless & needs challenging.

It’s easily debunked by the fact that not all, or even a majority of treatment, could be construed as cruel, dangerous or a violation of human rights.
Which is sole basis of your silly point.


Further more, you bleat on about “education”.

I can readily assure you that no amount of education will help someone during a sustained period of mania.
Nor delusional or paranoid beliefs.
In fact... The moment you, as a know-it-all, begin to educate someone about their paranoid delusions, 99.9% of the time you will become a part of the paranoid delusions.

I’m gonna make a prediction here...
You’re going to come back and say “that does not prove it’s a mental illness”...

& to save me time and effort replying to that after the fact, I’ll just tell you now you’re playing fast and loose with words and definitions.

a reply to: muzzleflash

So you're admitting that science WAS VALID at some point in recent times?

It wasn't even backed up with science it was just a thought exercise, its not like the ran off and done a whole load of experiments that proved nobody actually has schizophrenia.

a reply to: muzzleflash

It's a problem the entire health care system has. The focus isn't on keeping people healthy but treat diseases. And most of the time not even that. It inches take a pill. The mental disease industry is no exception.
While I stared and flagged you I think it goes a tiny bit too far. Hallucinations if not/if caused by a tumour are not just a social issues. Just an example.

a reply to: Realtruth

We don't even need to look very far, but rather close to home to see things are off.

Sadly, it’s a worldwide thing. I’ll even admit that mental health issues have become to broad a term and overly medicated.

There are things that don’t help people though. Things like the OP trying to say they don’t exist. That helps absolutely no one and can leave some of the more serious cases undiagnosed or not managed and bad things happen (murders, for instance).

originally posted by: OtherSideOfTheCoin

originally posted by: muzzleflash

originally posted by: Realtruth

originally posted by: TerryDon79
a reply to: muzzleflash

It's a choice every time they have a drink. 100% a choice.

So now addiction is a choice?

According to one experts it is.

One person, the therapist, tries to influence another person, the patient, to change their values and behavior. While the conversation called therapy can be helpful, most of the conversation that occurs in therapy based on the disease model is potentially harmful.

This is because the therapist misleads the patient into believing something that is simply untrue--that addiction is a disease, and, therefore, addicts cannot control their behavior. Preaching this falsehood to patients may encourage them to abandon any attempt to take responsibility for their actions.

www.psychiatrictimes.com...

I'm going to win this debate, just wait.
I actually do know what I'm talking about and I will come out on top.

Mental Illness is a Myth $$$

I'll be patient.

And this is how ignorance breeds.

This absurd idea that its not about being correct its about winning or losing

I like being correct and winning.
It's definitely about both, because to me being correct is winning.

And if you don't like living in a competitive society why the hell are you on ATS?

You may be able to bash around most members here but I'm not cool with that.

a reply to: muzzleflash

Not valid, but accepted. Science evolves with more knowledge.

a reply to: muzzleflash

I like being correct and winning.
It's definitely about both, because to me being correct is winning.

Can we just all keep a copy of this quote form the OP for future reference.

OP being correct and winning are not the same thing, to me it is always more important to be correct than it is to win.

And if you don't like living in a competitive society why the hell are you on ATS?

To learn, you might want to try it.

You may be able to bash around most members here but I'm not cool with that.

Yeah.... whatever.

originally posted by: TerryDon79
a reply to: Realtruth

We don't even need to look very far, but rather close to home to see things are off.

Sadly, it’s a worldwide thing. I’ll even admit that mental health issues have become to broad a term and overly medicated.

There are things that don’t help people though. Things like the OP trying to say they don’t exist. That helps absolutely no one and can leave some of the more serious cases undiagnosed or not managed and bad things happen (murders, for instance).

Criminals commit crimes. We have a justice system for that.

What you want is a precrime prediction unit that can label and stereotype people into categories so they can prevent the next big killer.

You'll never ever stop them.

The Las Vegas shooter proved everyone's profiles wrong. No one could have predicted it.

You trying to snub the truth while giving only a little slack is less helpful than what I'm doing - which is presenting the unadulterated truth without any censors.

a reply to: muzzleflash

Consider the notion that whilst mental illness may very well just be in our heads, it's still there, in our heads, and affecting how people perceive and/or interact with the reality that surrounds them.

As are the very real manifestations and symptoms produced by such illness.

If only if was as simple as defragging our minds, in the same manner, we do our hard drives i imagine reality would be a far more manageable experience but that's simply not the case.

Quite frankly society is of an order of magnitude and collectively insane far greater than any one individual.