House Republicans have a little-known plan to raise taxes on teachers by $2 billion

originally posted by: Hazardous1408
a reply to: proximo

Some group of people no matter how small is hurt by this policy - therefore the whole plan is bad.

This is a common, almost default, reaction from conservatives on many issues...

Sadly, it goes against the whole ideal of Government working for the benefit of every citizen.
Their demographic percentage shouldn’t even be considered.


Basically you’re argument is “well only a small percent will be affected, so who cares”...
But that is antithetical to catering to the needs of everyone.
Which is what the Government should be doing.

Get real, nothing is good for everyone. That is called utopia, and it is imaginary. There are always winners and losers period.

I'm not surprised you have this opinion though - most democrats think like this - we can make the world perfect if we just try hard enough. That is complete BS - humans are selfish, and are not equal some are simply smarter, or physically superior and like it or not nature is based on survival of the fittest. No arbitrary laws can ever stop this - that is why communism always fails - spectacularly.

a reply to: Edumakated

Teacher pensions are like the equivalent of someone having a multi-million dollar retirement package.

Tell that to the millions who are victims of the new "pension crises" in which they worked their lifetime for promised pensions, and are now receiving letters in the mail that they will no longer be receiving checks

I totally understand your point, but the fact that investment banks and greedy corporate slimeballs are "managing" these pension funds, most of the teachers who have been promised these pensions will only receive a fraction of their pensions, if anything by the time they go to retire

originally posted by: burdman30ott6

originally posted by: pavil
Teachers should not have to pay out of pocket for supplies to run an effective class.

They don't. If they were running "effective" classes, then we'd not be ranked so low in comparative education results to the rest of the developed world. I've seen the inner workings... the things teachers pay out of pocket for are neither necessary nor do they generally contribute to a more effective classroom. A chalkboard, chalk, text books, pencils, and paper are necessary for a classroom.

TBH it's a credit that the IRS has never asked a client of mine documentation on. It's such a small credit, it's not worth their time to audit.

originally posted by: FamCore
a reply to: Edumakated

Teacher pensions are like the equivalent of someone having a multi-million dollar retirement package.

Tell that to the millions who are victims of the new "pension crises" in which they worked their lifetime for promised pensions, and are now receiving letters in the mail that they will no longer be receiving checks

I totally understand your point, but the fact that investment banks and greedy corporate slimeballs are "managing" these pension funds, most of the teachers who have been promised these pensions will only receive a fraction of their pensions, if anything by the time they go to retire

It's a combination of things. Pension boards not investing properly, Government not funding the pensions properly and people living longer than the actuaries predicted. All of that resulted in vastly underfunded pension funds.

Most teacher 403's are fairly lower cost plans managed conservatively compared to other industries. Im sure brokers are a part of the problem, not the whole problem.

a reply to: pavil

Do you have children?

originally posted by: scraedtosleep
a reply to: pavil

Do you have children?

Yes 3.

Do you want to appeal to my sense of decency?

If $70 from a teachers tax return is hurting my children's education, I'll let you know.

I've voted for increases of property taxes every time education comes up.

Got a problem with that?

a reply to: scraedtosleep

I do and so far I haven't disagreed with him.

Public employee pensions across the board are underfunded.

What happens is that the fund managers set a growth target, and it's usually overly optimistic. They say they will get 7%, for example. And when there is a shortfall of that amount, nothing is done to make up for it. The people who are depending on that fund are only told their fund accrued X amount as if it actually did.

That's what everyone means by unfunded pension liabilities.

It also doesn't help that in all too many places, employees themselves are never expected to contribute to their own funds like most private sector employees do with 401(k)s. That helps ensure the funding is even lower.

In the few places where employees were allowed to take an active interest in contributing and managing their funds, the funds tend to outperform publicly managed ones, likely because the employees have a vested interest in safeguarding their own retirement.

originally posted by: DanteGaland
a reply to: Willtell

And NOT as plentiful anymore at ALL.

As I said, my friend has a lame 401k. He LOVES teaching his students. Hates the pay. Hates the benefits.

He does it because he wants to, not because it pays well.

ME? I think it's certified crazy. No WAY would I put up with someone else's kids for peanuts in pay and benefits.

Do people teach because they love to teach, or do they teach because they're looking for a paycheck?

originally posted by: pavil

originally posted by: scraedtosleep
a reply to: pavil

Do you have children?

Yes 3.

Do you want to appeal to my sense of decency?

If $70 from a teachers tax return is hurting my children's education, I'll let you know.

I've voted for increases of property taxes every time education comes up.

Got a problem with that?

no, I have no children so I should not comment about any of this. I just thought it was important for everyone to see that most of you are parents. Maybe you will see more of what you guys have in common.

a reply to: FamCore

It almost appears the entire concept of a 'Pension' was a ponzi scheme to begin with. I think it worked a lot longer for government employees because they had an 'endless' pool of taxpayer money at their disposal. Now that the taxpayer is almost sucked dry, reality is starting to rear its ugly head.

I get that these people were promised something, but when there is no money to pay for these lavish programs, it doesn't really matter what was promised.

For this situation to happen to teachers is kind of ironic. Shouldn't they be the brightest and most qualified? How was it that they didn't see this coming?

Maybe the entire educational structure of the USA is producing these qualified individuals on purpose. Rote memorization and regurgitation being the norm versus critical thinking.

originally posted by: ClovenSky
a reply to: FamCore

It almost appears the entire concept of a 'Pension' was a ponzi scheme to begin with. I think it worked a lot longer for government employees because they had an 'endless' pool of taxpayer money at their disposal. Now that the taxpayer is almost sucked dry, reality is starting to rear its ugly head.

I get that these people were promised something, but when there is no money to pay for these lavish programs, it doesn't really matter what was promised.

For this situation to happen to teachers is kind of ironic. Shouldn't they be the brightest and most qualified? How was it that they didn't see this coming?

Maybe the entire educational structure of the USA is producing these qualified individuals on purpose. Rote memorization and regurgitation being the norm versus critical thinking.

Properly managed and funded pension plans with a good actuarial basis and conservative projections would be no problem. We don't have that anymore. It's not rocket science to be honest.

People want everything without paying the price for it. That's why pensions don't work.

a reply to: scraedtosleep

Hmmm ....

Could it be that we're tired of paying for plum benefits for people who don't do a real good job at educating our kids?

Some of us have even spent several years working with children, both in a traditional classroom and in a private setting.

And I still feel the way I do. I saw the money being wasted firsthand.

originally posted by: Edumakated

originally posted by: proximo

originally posted by: Southern Guardian
More taxes being raised on the lower classes. This time teachers are the target, what a surprise?

Richardson estimates she spent $500 of her own money on her students last year. She says it's worth it — her voice lights up talking about “her kids” and all their “aha moments,” many of which come when she deviates from the textbook.

But what has also been helpful is that she's able to deduct $250 off her taxable income for the extras she buys for her classroom, a small help that Congress created in 2002 for teachers who “go above and beyond.”

www.washingtonpost.com...

We've already learned that the GOP plans to increase taxes for graduate students by almost 400%. We also know that Trumps advisors have been can't even guarantee the middle class won't see tax increases.. The evidence is piling up that the lower classes are going to be screwed. This is just another revelation.

Now, the educator expense deduction has become a sticking point in the GOP tax debate, with the House and Senate taking it in two wildly different directions.

The House GOP tax bill would scrap that educator deduction entirely.

The Senate GOP tax plan would double it to $500.

What's the reason for this? Seriously? Teachers like Ms Richardson over here go above and beyond the call of duty for the sake of education, for the less fortunate kids. People like her do the community a service, unknown heroes, and yet she now has to suffer so the wealthy get a fatter paycheck. She needs to stand where the wealth will trickle right?

For those who keep on stating nearly half of Americans pay no income taxes, they still pay other forms of taxes that take a significant chunk out of their already lowely incomes:

That doesn’t mean half of Americans pay no taxes, however. That’s because income tax isn’t the only type of tax. Other taxes, like sales taxes and the payroll tax, are regressive. The relatively poor, who have can’t afford to save as much and who make a larger share of their income from wages, pay more of what they make in sales and payroll taxes. The payroll tax applies only to the first $106,800 of a person’s wages in any case, so if you make you more than that you don’t pay any payroll tax on any income beyond that amount. When you consider all the different types of federal taxes together, the effective tax rate on the rich is still higher than on the poor, but not that dramatically. The Tax Policy Center calculates that in 2010 the average American, who made around $46,000 a year, paid 14% of their income in taxes. Someone in the top 1% of all earners—a group whose median income is over $800,000—paid on average about 26% of their income in taxes.

bigthink.com...

The people are being screwed by DC through this tax plan and yet many continue to keep their heads in the sand. All for the sake of partisan politics.

This is total propaganda.

The plan eliminates tons of minor deductions like this one to simplify the filing process - but what it does in it's place is increase the general deduction by almost double to compensate for eliminating these specialized deductions.

These teachers will still come out ahead with the new plan in almost every circumstance.

I am so sick of the democrats finding one small group - in this case teachers - make them out to be victims by twisting the truth as an emotional appeal to uniformed people who actually believe the Republicans hate said group and are targeting them.

Pretty sad how people like the OP get duped...

The other thing is why do teachers need a special deduction? Anyone can already write off "unreimbursed employment expenses". I usually have a few thousand a year in expenses related to my job that my employer doesn't pay for that I can write off (training, entertainment, etc).

Probably it was meant for low income parents to buy school supplies for their children. The teacher adapted this to buy supplies for her students.

originally posted by: pavil

originally posted by: DanteGaland

originally posted by: pavil

originally posted by: DanteGaland
a reply to: Edumakated

Really? Where are YOU from?

Please do give some examples...?

Yeah..teachers suck!!!

I do taxes for quite a few teachers and retired teachers. I've yet to meet a poor retired teacher. I have one client who makes more in retirement than they did working. Teachers for the most part have excellent retirement packages.

My friend is a public teacher.

Has 401k, NO PENSION.

So, your argument is invalid.

So my argument is invalid due to your one personal story? Did I say Pension? I said "retirement packages". Please ask your friend to help you read.

Btw it's not a 401k he has if he is a public school teacher.

Some teachers do indeed have pension plans as well as other retirement plans.

teacher pension plans

Have a Good Thankgiving

It's a 401-type plan. EMPLOYER MATCHING. He contributes to it. Employer does also. It is invested in the market and he can roll it over when he quits.

Sounds like a 401k to me. There is NO "defined" benefit. His "retirement" is based soley on the stock market.

He also does NOT pay into SS so he won't get that. . . if it even exists in 20 years.

Teachers cannot afford more taxes. They already get hosed by the system as it is, what with their "retirement" plan that they are forced to pay into.

originally posted by: Wardaddy454

originally posted by: DanteGaland
a reply to: Willtell

And NOT as plentiful anymore at ALL.

As I said, my friend has a lame 401k. He LOVES teaching his students. Hates the pay. Hates the benefits.

He does it because he wants to, not because it pays well.

ME? I think it's certified crazy. No WAY would I put up with someone else's kids for peanuts in pay and benefits.

Do people teach because they love to teach, or do they teach because they're looking for a paycheck?

Like any career, they get into it because they think they will enjoy the work and believe it will help them pay their bills in a manner consistent with their living expectations.

Plus, why the hell are we talking about raising the taxes on middle income folks when the wealthiest 1% own the entire economy? I'll tell you why: It's precisely because they own the entire economy, and the government, and all the politicians drafting these lame tax proposals.

a reply to: proximo

and the Democrats know it. But they don't want this to pass because they also know it will improve the economy and strengthen the Republican party.

They know no such thing, that’s what you believe.

The trickle down has NEVER worked and the democrats know it

The democrats fear the budget bulge from this bill as it did in 1981 under Reagan's tax cuts for the rich and he went and raised taxes on the middle class to deal with his tax cut for the rich


TRICKLE down doesn't work

a reply to: Edumakated

What teachers make and their pensions depend on where they live. Illinois used to have good money and benefits, where I live now they don't and others states are worse than here. Georgia and Arkansas come to mind.

originally posted by: Dudemo5
Teachers cannot afford more taxes. They already get hosed by the system as it is, what with their "retirement" plan that they are forced to pay into.

Really, my clients are retired grade school teachers.....they are doing just fine. Explain to me the taxes teachers pay that other Americans don't?

Have you seen a teachers "retirement"……?

It's pretty good.