Risk of 'ecological Armageddon' as number of flying insects plunges

a reply to: TruthxIsxInxThexMist

What utter BS that is! Try driving for an hour anywhere in the Texas Hill country and the entire front-end and Windshield are RUINED with bug guts......now, today, tomorrow, last week, last month, 6 months ago!

Man, I really don't think these so-called scientists ever leave their bubbles.

originally posted by: Aliensun
a reply to: TruthxIsxInxThexMist

Few people or even Mother Nature will miss the hordes of locusts/grasshoppers that used to devastate everything green in their path. That was Nature run amok. But you seem to blame humanity as the culprit, period. While that may be true in the larger sense, the decline is more due to the use of pesticides than the existence of humans.

At a deeper level, however we could blame the over abundance of the locusts/grasshoppers on the "modern" use of crop farming as supplying a ready and abundant food supply for those critters. But in the final analysis, then, humans are to blame...or, I would go back even further and cite the old adage of it is a "dog eat dog" world and humans, here at this place, seem to be top dog over all. In other words, this situation is the expected nature of things.

Expected nature of things means we'll die out then.

population and Global Industrialism is a problem. Cutting down the forests and trees in the garden is a problem.

originally posted by: Painterz
It's not just cities though. I live in the scottish Highlands, and the number of insects around this summer collapsed. Usually there's swarms of all sorts of insects all through the summertime, adn this year? Virtually nothing, it was seriously weird being outside.

It was like being outside in the winter, just, nothing flying around or crawling around.

And I live in the middle of nowhere, very clean water and air, no pesticides.

That's a strange one indeed. Where do you think they've gone?

originally posted by: TrueBrit
a reply to: TruthxIsxInxThexMist

Over population is a total bloody myth. In the UK, for example, there is more space given over to golf courses and such, than there is to housing, by a solid margin I might add. This is both utterly ridiculous, and entirely typical of the rich and powerful to organise. We could have more farmland, and more housing than we have by HUGE margins, if our planning departments and our local and national governments, had not been co-opted by centre right econo-fascist scum. As it is though, we are hostage to a toxic paradigm at present, something I have been trying to work against my whole adult life.

Industrialisation however, does cause problems, big ones. Always has, always will, until someone stops it by way of making law which prohibits it (with strong enough penalties that the owners of companies would not dare to violate them, for fear of having their home repossessed from under them, their net worth liquidated and spread amongst the population, as well as being banged up for the rest of their natural lives in what you and I would call a bedsit, but they would call hell). Small industry which supports local economies, that is what we need here. Small companies, doing well enough to employ lots of staff, without having to grow to fill a gap in international markets. That would be nice, would it not?

Are you kidding me?

Every "high" street you walk along now in every Town has shops along the whole street and some beyond.. I think we have too many shops!

And over=population isn't a myth.

What would you put it down to then? Like i said 30 years ago there as plenty of birds and bees and we had much less population.

a reply to: TonyS

The report is based on Europe!

Pretty sure in the US there's plenty of room and plenty of insects.... for now.

a reply to: TruthxIsxInxThexMist

But it may have something to do with modern large scale agriculture. Several factors could play a role here. For instance, it could be linked to pesticides – especially insecticides – that farmers use, or fertilizers that change the biology of the soil and plants. It could also be related to farmers constantly working the same fields without allowing them to lie fallow, or the fact that unused areas, such as brush and hedges along roads and paths, are diminishing.

Lachmann says "the birds that live in agricultural landscapes have been affected most. The development of our agricultural lands is probably the reason for the massive decline in birds."

Agrarian ecologist Teja Tscharntke of the Georg August University in Göttingen warns that the decline of insects even in protected areas suggests they are loosing their function as a healthy breeding ground for new generations of insects. Once they leave the protected habitat, they are lost and unable to breed.

The German Farmers' Association, however, draws quite different conclusions.

"Considering that the insect count was done exclusively in protected habitats, this shows that it would be premature to quickly point at agriculture," says the association's secretary general, Bernhard Krüsken. "The new study explicitly mentions that more research is needed into the gravity and the origins of this insect decline."

There is one thing on which everybody agrees: if the situation is bad for insects, birds and other animals will suffer, even reptiles. And it's no good for agriculture either, which is dependent on insects to pollinate plants.

Insect and bird populations declining dramatically in Germany

And over=population isn't a myth.

Overpopulation in Germany? Now you must be kidding... we're overpopulated with old farts, yes.

originally posted by: TonyS
a reply to: TruthxIsxInxThexMist

What utter BS that is! Try driving for an hour anywhere in the Texas Hill country and the entire front-end and Windshield are RUINED with bug guts......now, today, tomorrow, last week, last month, 6 months ago!

Man, I really don't think these so-called scientists ever leave their bubbles.

Study was done in Germany ...

originally posted by: TonyS
a reply to: TruthxIsxInxThexMist

What utter BS that is! Try driving for an hour anywhere in the Texas Hill country and the entire front-end and Windshield are RUINED with bug guts......now, today, tomorrow, last week, last month, 6 months ago!

Man, I really don't think these so-called scientists ever leave their bubbles.

I've noticed the decline over the years in central Oklahoma.

I counted less than a dozen butterflies all year that I've seen here.

no butter flys no lightling buys no love buys ( and usaly they are millions )
No bees ( cant remember the last time I seen a bee .
Lots of mysctos . Tons of frogs ??? tree frogs every ware ( what are they eating not a clue ?
north fl ( not excatly urben

a reply to: TruthxIsxInxThexMist

High Streets are not supposed to be residential. They are supposed to be business oriented locales, especially in larger towns. For example, Basildon town centre in Essex, and Southend High Street, also in Essex, both typical towns of their size, feature either a highs treet or a shopping complex. Southend High Street for example, has only properties relating to, or actively engaged in some form of commercial enterprise. There are no residences which face onto the street itself, although some properties feature apartments above, all of which exit onto the other streets around the High Street proper, not onto the street itself. Southend also features two shopping centres, one at either end of the High Street. You have the Victoria Plaza to the North, and The Royals to the South, near to the access which descends to the beach.

Basildon features a dedicated shopping centre, which although it is essentially one amalgamated shopping complex, covers the same area as ALL the business dedicated property in Southend town centre, including the High Street, connecting streets, and BOTH the shopping complexes there. Its essentially a shopping town, is Basildon. There is residential property, but none of it is within what one would call Basildon Town Centre. That shopping centre has been there since 1985, and currently contains a HUGE number of businesses, from industry big shots to independent outfits.

Sure, in smaller towns, villages and so on, you have residential and business mixing it up, but its been the norm for decently sized towns to have business focused High Streets since well before the eighties. And again, it IS the case that we have more land used for golf courses than we are currently using for housing, it is the case that if ignorant pricks in Aston Martins did not insist on ruining a walk in the countryside, we could have more housing, farmland and places left to grow natural and uncontrolled, wild places where bugs and so on, could make perfectly happy little lives for themselves. We have the space, we just misuse it. We do NOT have an overpopulation problem, we have a resource management problem, caused by the entitlement that wealthy pricks with no social responsibility about themselves, believe they have, to occupy space better put to effective and practical use, with their excuse to waste money on tasteless clothing, a bag of metal sticks with wheels on the bottom of it, and use of the private club house.

a reply to: TruthxIsxInxThexMist

Massive population increase and more buildings being built.

I think that's right , as with most species in crisis the common factor is habitat loss.
I keep a part of my garden wild , it's a small gesture but the local birds appreciate it and I feel I'm at least doing a little bit to help in the face of all the new building on greenbelt land going on around here.

Here's something to consider, conservation efforts could be part of the blame. An old growth ecosystem, esp. in a fire suppressed area, would have far less diversity then a regularly burned over or clear cut area.

You'd find a lower volume of specialized insects in a balanced food web with a just sustainable population in an old growth area. Open that up and the volume of insects increases greatly with the new plant growth. If left undisturbed by natural or man made forces, a stable ecosystem will develop where the insect variety and population will drop off.

Just a thought I had, nothing to back up the idea with.

originally posted by: MichiganSwampBuck
Here's something to consider, conservation efforts could be part of the blame. An old growth ecosystem, esp. in a fire suppressed area, would have far less diversity then a regularly burned over or clear cut area.

You'd find a lower volume of specialized insects in a balanced food web with a just sustainable population in an old growth area. Open that up and the volume of insects increases greatly with the new plant growth. If left undisturbed by natural or man made forces, a stable ecosystem will develop where the insect variety and population will drop off.

Just a thought I had, nothing to back up the idea with.

You are probably right if we consider semi-wilderness.

In Europe, from Alps to Baltic see, is maybe less than 1% of really wild nature. Everything else is to some degree cultural country. Problem is: 100 years ago the country was not only in balance but - thanks to people struggle for daily bread - was incredibly diverse. Almost every country household had at least goat, productive small garden and few fruit trees. Much smaller fields (1/1000 compared to now) were divided by bushes and marshlands. There was much larger diversity in crops and livestock was raised and used locally.

One of results is corrupted water balance leading to droughts and floods. Soil without (basically) cellulose fibers is not able to retain water and send it to underground water reservoirs. Instead is watter running on surface to nearest well regulated (because of floods) creek and sent through dams to sea. Later, when soil is dry, (unobstructed) winds came and take part in erosion started by unabsorbed water. Perpetual cycle of evaporation and precipitation typical for mild climate is disturbed ...

To add insult to injury we dose everything what survived by TM protected cocktail of poisons ...

originally posted by: Greven

originally posted by: TonyS
a reply to: TruthxIsxInxThexMist

What utter BS that is! Try driving for an hour anywhere in the Texas Hill country and the entire front-end and Windshield are RUINED with bug guts......now, today, tomorrow, last week, last month, 6 months ago!

Man, I really don't think these so-called scientists ever leave their bubbles.

I've noticed the decline over the years in central Oklahoma.

I counted less than a dozen butterflies all year that I've seen here.

Think I saw about 2 butterflies and 2 ladybirds this year in East London.

a reply to: TrueBrit

Thanks for your amusing post but I still believe we are over-populating the Earth. Well.. at east Europe!

You'll plenty of land in Africa, Asia, USA and South America though but Europe has a massive decline in Nature & Wildlife and it is due to high population and the building in greenland over recent years.

originally posted by: gortex
a reply to: TruthxIsxInxThexMist

Massive population increase and more buildings being built.

I think that's right , as with most species in crisis the common factor is habitat loss.
I keep a part of my garden wild , it's a small gesture but the local birds appreciate it and I feel I'm at least doing a little bit to help in the face of all the new building on greenbelt land going on around here.

Well done. I don't have a garden unfortunately so can't have what I'd like which is trees & bush so i can put out bird food. I do live very close to a park... a large park but even there the birds have declined in recent years. What I'd like to do is get a ladder, go over the park and use the lader so I can put bird food up in the trees. Nuts, they love those.

originally posted by: MichiganSwampBuck
Here's something to consider, conservation efforts could be part of the blame. An old growth ecosystem, esp. in a fire suppressed area, would have far less diversity then a regularly burned over or clear cut area.

You'd find a lower volume of specialized insects in a balanced food web with a just sustainable population in an old growth area. Open that up and the volume of insects increases greatly with the new plant growth. If left undisturbed by natural or man made forces, a stable ecosystem will develop where the insect variety and population will drop off.

Just a thought I had, nothing to back up the idea with.

You mean 'where the insect variety and population will RISE.'

I'm pretty sure the presence of giant hawks and eagles is a sign of a functional ecosystem. In my memory, in the Northeast USA, Bald Eagles and other raptors have migrated back to areas they haven't been living in 50-60 years or more.

Well here in the New York City area, they are spraying 'mosquito pesticide' to kill mosquitoes allegedly for the reason of fighting West Nile (the old reason) and now the Zika virus.

They spray it from the air and on land from trucks. They spray wide areas.

a reply to: TruthxIsxInxThexMist

Why do these Scientists never say what the real problem is which is over-population and industrialism on a global scale??

Is that even a real question ?

Money is the reason if you need to ask you are not paying attention.