Why are Jesus and Satan both called the morning star?

a reply to: MerkabaMeditation

In every sense of the word, Jesus is indeed a Bearer of Light (Lucifer), while the "Lucifer" of Isaiah is a Latin mistranslation. In reality, only Jesus was semantically and literally referred to as "Lucifer".

I've posted this information many times, but I continue to stand behind this copy/paste of mine:

a sad and unfortunate mistranslation of Isaiah 14:12

"How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! How art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!"

In this Biblical instance, "Lucifer, son of the morning", is an outdated and inaccurate translation, originating from St. Jerome's Latin Vulgate Bible. The myth and imagery of a Satanic Lucifer was then perpetuated by the King James Version of the Bible, and the fictional epic poems; Dante Alighieri's Divine Comedy and John Milton's Paradise Lost.

In place of "Lucifer", the original Hebrew actually reads;
"Heylel (הֵילֵ֣ל) Ben (בֶּן־) Shachar (שָׁ֑חַר)"

Which literally means;
"Heylel, the Son of Shachar".

The word, "Heylel" (הֵילֵ֣ל), is rather enigmatic. According to several Concordances, Heylel is defined as: "a shining one" and "star of the morning".

According to "The Ancient Hebrew Lexicon of the Bible", by Jeff A. Benner, the roots for "Heylel" center around the concepts; "Behold", "Look toward", and "Shining".

Literally, we can say (Heyl-El Ben Shachar):
"Behold the Shining One of El/God, Son of Shachar"

Shachar is synonymous with the specific light of dawn, not light in general.

The Hebrew words for "Light" are typically derived from the root "Nun-Hey-Resh" (N-H-R), such as "Neharah", "Nehir", and "Nahar". This is similar to Arabic's word for light, being, "Nur".

Shachar is a Canaanite deity representative of the "Morning Star," which is Venus on the eastern horizon before sunrise.

Now we have;
"Heyl-El, the Son of the Morning Star"

Deduced;
"Heyl-El, Son of Venus"
"Behold the Shining One of El, Son of Venus"

There is no Satan or Lucifer here. Red-flagged mistranslation! It's overdo that we cast aside the Lucifer connection to Satan or any Fallen Angel.

 

According to Biblical studies, Light is synonymous with God, holiness, truth, life, goodness, morality, and salvation.

In 1 John 1:5, it is written;
• "God is Light; in Him there is no darkness at all."

In Revelation 22:16, Jesus is mentioned to be Lucifer, a.k.a., The Morning Star;
• "I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright (lampros) and morning (prōinos) star (astēr)."

But that's ok, because we've already established that "Lucifer" holds absolutely no connotation to anything wicked.

In Matthew 5:16, Jesus mentions his followers as Bearers of Light and is glorifying of Light, advising;
• "Let your Light shine before others, that they may see your good deeds and glorify your Father in Heaven."

In the 1st and 9th Chapters of John, Jesus is described as the Light of the world;
• "In him was life, and that life was the Light of all mankind."
• "While I am in the world, I am the Light of the world."

a reply to: DISRAELI

Except there have been thousands of kings and presidents. Not sure how many "people" have gone by that title other than the two mentioned.

A clue might be located here:

Revelation 1
16 In his right hand he held seven stars, and coming out of his mouth was a sharp, double-edged sword. His face was like the sun shining in all its brilliance.

A "double-edged sword" is something that can cause either favorable or unfavorable consequences. Good and bad, light and dark, Jesus and Satan.

Hopefully you get what I'm saying with that. They (Satan and Jesus) are two sides of the same coin.

originally posted by: MerkabaMeditation
I'm not looking to offend anyone's religion, but what's your take on both Jesus and Satan being called The Morning Star in the Bible?

Rev. 22:16:
“I, Jesus, have sent my angel to testify to you about these things for the churches. I am the root and the descendant of David, the bright morning star.”

Isaiah 14:12:
“How you have fallen from heaven, O morning star, son of the dawn! You have been cast down to the earth, you who once laid low the nations!”

The morning star, that's our Sun right? Sun of God? Are we looking at Sun Worship here?

-MM

if you think about it these versus both might point to jesus. He (i am told) lived a sinless life. Still others cast there sin upon him. He suffered a terrible torture and death where spiritualy and physicly he took on the "sins of the world".

I may be wrong ill go reread the surrounding text in my 700+ errored bible OH AND ITS MANDELA AFFECTED. AT least to me it is.

originally posted by: Sahabi
a reply to: MerkabaMeditation

In every sense of the word, Jesus is indeed a Bearer of Light (Lucifer), while the "Lucifer" of Isaiah is a Latin mistranslation. In reality, only Jesus was semantically and literally referred to as "Lucifer".

I've posted this information many times, but I continue to stand behind this copy/paste of mine:

a sad and unfortunate mistranslation of Isaiah 14:12

"How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! How art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!"

In this Biblical instance, "Lucifer, son of the morning", is an outdated and inaccurate translation, originating from St. Jerome's Latin Vulgate Bible. The myth and imagery of a Satanic Lucifer was then perpetuated by the King James Version of the Bible, and the fictional epic poems; Dante Alighieri's Divine Comedy and John Milton's Paradise Lost.

In place of "Lucifer", the original Hebrew actually reads;
"Heylel (הֵילֵ֣ל) Ben (בֶּן־) Shachar (שָׁ֑חַר)"

Which literally means;
"Heylel, the Son of Shachar".

The word, "Heylel" (הֵילֵ֣ל), is rather enigmatic. According to several Concordances, Heylel is defined as: "a shining one" and "star of the morning".

According to "The Ancient Hebrew Lexicon of the Bible", by Jeff A. Benner, the roots for "Heylel" center around the concepts; "Behold", "Look toward", and "Shining".

Literally, we can say (Heyl-El Ben Shachar):
"Behold the Shining One of El/God, Son of Shachar"

Shachar is synonymous with the specific light of dawn, not light in general.

The Hebrew words for "Light" are typically derived from the root "Nun-Hey-Resh" (N-H-R), such as "Neharah", "Nehir", and "Nahar". This is similar to Arabic's word for light, being, "Nur".

Shachar is a Canaanite deity representative of the "Morning Star," which is Venus on the eastern horizon before sunrise.

Now we have;
"Heyl-El, the Son of the Morning Star"

Deduced;
"Heyl-El, Son of Venus"
"Behold the Shining One of El, Son of Venus"

There is no Satan or Lucifer here. Red-flagged mistranslation! It's overdo that we cast aside the Lucifer connection to Satan or any Fallen Angel.

 

According to Biblical studies, Light is synonymous with God, holiness, truth, life, goodness, morality, and salvation.

In 1 John 1:5, it is written;
• "God is Light; in Him there is no darkness at all."

In Revelation 22:16, Jesus is mentioned to be Lucifer, a.k.a., The Morning Star;
• "I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright (lampros) and morning (prōinos) star (astēr)."

But that's ok, because we've already established that "Lucifer" holds absolutely no connotation to anything wicked.

In Matthew 5:16, Jesus mentions his followers as Bearers of Light and is glorifying of Light, advising;
• "Let your Light shine before others, that they may see your good deeds and glorify your Father in Heaven."

In the 1st and 9th Chapters of John, Jesus is described as the Light of the world;
• "In him was life, and that life was the Light of all mankind."
• "While I am in the world, I am the Light of the world."

star trek ds9 or voyager, mentions something like "shakar" resistance force..sorry im a slight trekie

originally posted by: Ophiuchus 13
a reply to: MerkabaMeditation

Lucifer and what is described as Natas are different beings it seems.

Yeah, one is considered the devil, the other a rad skater from the 80's.

a reply to: MerkabaMeditation


It's a reference to Venus and it's a symbol of enlightenment.

In the case of Jesus, it's the true enlightenment. In the other, it was presented as a way of mocking a certain King.

originally posted by: 3NL1GHT3N3D1
A clue might be located here:

Revelation 1
16 In his right hand he held seven stars, and coming out of his mouth was a sharp, double-edged sword. His face was like the sun shining in all its brilliance.

Hopefully you get what I'm saying with that. They (Satan and Jesus) are two sides of the same coin.

No.

a reply to: AnkhMorpork

You don't know what I mean or you disagree?

What Jesus says can be used for good or it can be used for bad. Religion uses it for bad and the Jesus they promote is Satan in my opinion. Those who internalize his words and relate them to their own selves see the true nature and intentions of Jesus.

Two sides of the same coin, words having the ability to be interpreted in opposite directions, a "double-edged sword" coming from his mouth.

originally posted by: anotherside
if you think about it these versus both might point to jesus.

How, when one is about a Babylonian king?

a reply to: AnkhMorpork

It was a way to say that light (Lucifer, the light bearer) can be turned to darkness and ignorance. Those who belive in the sacrificial Jesus have had their light turned to darkness, they are ignorant to the true light that is right in front of them and inside of them. They believe the light is outside of them in a man named Jesus. Jesus is an archetype describing US because WE are the light of the world.

We will all eventually die and be "sacrificed" only to rise again to new life (reincarnate). The light of the world and image of God (Jesus) is what you see.

originally posted by: 3NL1GHT3N3D1
a reply to: AnkhMorpork

You don't know what I mean or you disagree?

What Jesus says can be used for good or it can be used for bad. Religion uses it for bad and the Jesus they promote is Satan in my opinion. Those who internalize his words and relate them to their own selves see the true nature and intentions of Jesus.

Two sides of the same coin, words having the ability to be interpreted in opposite directions, a "double-edged sword" coming from his mouth.

I think they are possibly different. Similar in that they come from the CREATOR.

Beelzebub or Beelzebul (/biːˈɛlzɪbʌb/ bee-EL-zib-ub or /ˈbiːlzɪbʌb/ BEEL-zib-ub; Hebrew: בַּעַל זְבוּב‎‎, Baʿal Zəvûv) is a name derived from a Philistine god, formerly worshipped in Ekron, and later adopted by Abrahamic religions as a given name to a major demon. The name Beelzebub is associated with the Canaanite god Baal.

In theological sources, predominately Christian, Beelzebub is sometimes another name for the Devil, similar to Satan. He is known in demonology as one of the seven princes of Hell. The Dictionnaire Infernal describes Beelzebub as a being capable of flying, known as the "Lord of the Flyers", or the "Lord of the Flies".

a reply to: MerkabaMeditation

Poor translation; the word used for Lucifer isn't the same as those used for Jesus. The ideas are similar, but not the same.

originally posted by: MerkabaMeditation
a reply to: AugustusMasonicus

Are you sure? The King James Version translation is as follows:

"How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!"

Unless the Babylonian King is Lucifer, it seems they are talking about Satan here.

-MM

Definitely about Lucifer, but a better translation - "son of the morning" isn't the same as Morning Star.

a reply to: 3NL1GHT3N3D1


I've evaluated that the double edged sword doesn't describe a duality or a double meaning.

It's the two edged sword of true Civility which requires great balancing to properly heft where what we measure out will be measured unto us, so it's a sword that cuts both ways and could slice us to pieces if we're not careful.

Satan, where he or it actually appears in the Bible, like I said in this case, it was a mocking of the King, to note the magnitude of his fall, not a true reference to Satan, which basically means adversary.

Satan is more of a way of thinking and a certain rebellious principal that some two horned figure you have to feel sorry for because he got left out.

There's no need to reconcile with Satan, like he or it is some sort of repressed dark side.

No, the evil one, who's a strong one, must be bound and double bound and his house pilfered of anything of any lasting value, rendered powerless in the face of God's grace expressed in such a way that it could be said that the height of virtue is power, restrained.

That said, as the embodiment of sin, in taking it all on, at some level, for a moment at least, Jesus accepted responsibility for all evil, and thus, if the devil worked to put him there, that's the moment that he was robbed blind and the hoodwink or the unremovable double bind was placed, even unwittingly by the devil itself who is blind in it's fundamental hatred and ignorance.

Jesus is all good. Not the flip side of Satan, don't be absurd. You're taking your avatar by far too seriously, imho.

I think fairy tales are fun for a while. But this stuff.. it's all fantasy and some of it dangerous. It eats the mind like rotting wood. I lost a good friend to a cult so if i sound bitter, that's the reason.

Satan and Luicfer may have been synonymous due to it being a title to the King of Babylon, the one who supposedly ensalved early Hebrews( all the while other could roam) and where the story of Yah Weh freeing the Jews an the exodus from Egypt may have been based off the event. Also the Whore of Babylon being some monstrosity of the devil may explain it

No clue why Jesus would give himself a pagan title though that synonymous to a planet.

originally posted by: MerkabaMeditation
a reply to: AugustusMasonicus

Are you sure? The King James Version translation is as follows:

"How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!"

Unless the Babylonian King is Lucifer, it seems they are talking about Satan here.

-MM

Where does it say Lucifer and Satan are the same "thing"?

a reply to: Ophiuchus 13

You have a very cool avatar and background.