Why are Jesus and Satan both called the morning star?

I'm not looking to offend anyone's religion, but what's your take on both Jesus and Satan being called The Morning Star in the Bible?

Rev. 22:16:
“I, Jesus, have sent my angel to testify to you about these things for the churches. I am the root and the descendant of David, the bright morning star.”

Isaiah 14:12:
“How you have fallen from heaven, O morning star, son of the dawn! You have been cast down to the earth, you who once laid low the nations!”

The morning star, that's our Sun right? Sun of God? Are we looking at Sun Worship here?

-MM

a reply to: MerkabaMeditation


In the second verse Satan wasn't being called the Morning Star, a Babylonian king was.

Mainly because the Book Of Revelation is bullsh*t and only part of the Canon for fearmongering control purposes...

Of course you’re going to find contradictions in it.

a reply to: AugustusMasonicus

Are you sure? The King James Version translation is as follows:

"How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!"

Unless the Babylonian King is Lucifer, it seems they are talking about Satan here.

-MM

a reply to: MerkabaMeditation

Lucifer and what is described as Natas are different beings it seems.

Venus is typically considered the morning and evening star.

originally posted by: MerkabaMeditation
Are you sure? The King James Version translation is as follows:

"How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!"

-MM

I'm positive, the concept of Lucifer equaling the Devil didn't even originate until the Middle Ages. Earlier translations don't have that. Please look up St. Jerome in regards this verse for clarification.

a reply to: MerkabaMeditation

Morning Star / VENUS seen in Dawn-

originally posted by: Ophiuchus 13
a reply to: MerkabaMeditation

Morning Star / VENUS seen in Dawn-

But Venus isn't technically a star though, it's a planet - but perhaps the ancients didn't know that and called it a star regardless. Only suns are really stars, though, if we wan't to be correct.

-MM

They are brothers. There are many morning stars

a reply to: MerkabaMeditation

Maybe "morning star" was their version of "dude" back then?

“I, Jesus, have sent my angel to testify to you about these things for the churches. I am the root and the descendant of David, dude."

“How you have fallen from heaven, dude, son of the dawn! You have been cast down to the earth, you who once laid low the nations!”

I had to interject the levity. And as a bonus it does make it more fun to read. lol

originally posted by: AugustusMasonicus
a reply to: MerkabaMeditation
In the second verse Satan wasn't being called the Morning Star, a Babylonian king was.

^This. It's right there if you read the whole chapter.

4 That thou shalt take up this proverb against the king of Babylon, and say, How hath the oppressor ceased! the golden city ceased!

And for everyone who even mentions "Lucifer", you're wrong. Lucifer was never in the original scriptures, and was only added in more modern versions of the bible as a word. Yes, Lucifer isn't even a name - it's just a plain word. It means something like "light-bringing". There is no being named Lucifer and there never was.

a reply to: trollz

Then why does the The King James translation use Lucifer?

-MM

a reply to: MerkabaMeditation

In Isiah the word Lucifer is referring to the king of Babylon. Babylon is symbolic for the world opposed to God's plans.

The Morning Star was also called the Cherub who covers, and was in the garden of God.

Who was in the garden of God and caused the nations to shake? Who was it that caused the fall?

Adam. Adam is the morning star, the king of babylon (symbolically), the cherub who covers.

We see the comparison of Adam and Christ especially in the letters of Paul, but also in the book of Hebrews, and woven throughout the entire bible. (Jacob and Esau are one example as expounded by Paul in 1Corinthians).

The first man adam became a living soul the last man Christ became a life giving spirit. The comparison of flesh vs. Spirit, Earth vs. Heaven, Hagar vs. Sarah, the physical temple vs. the heavenly temple, the earthly body vs. the glorious body, etc. etc.

a reply to: MerkabaMeditation

I always thought that the morning star referred to Venus, which would be seen preceding the sun at sun rise. It is equivalent to "The Light Bringer", a Promethean figure for certain. Lucifer has also been called the light bringer for his leading to Adam and Eve to gnosis in the Garden of Eden by showing them the apple of the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil.

I've actually wondered about this unusual pairing as well and have never come up with a satisfying answer from either Christian or Gnostic philosophy.

originally posted by: MerkabaMeditation
a reply to: trollz

Then why does the The King James translation use Lucifer?

Because it was a word meaning something like "light-bringer" and the passage is meant to ridicule the king of Babylon who had led people to believe he was of divine origin. Kindof like if a person makes up a story that they're a king in some other country, so you make fun of them by calling them "your highness".

a reply to: MerkabaMeditation

It's easy, they're both one and the same: me. The goddess Venus. Uahaha

a reply to: MerkabaMeditation

the first line

I, Jesus, have sent my angel to testify to you about these things for the churches. I am the root and the descendant of David, the bright morning star.

was added by empire. Early christians wouldnt have used that title for Jesus. A tip off is that here Jesus refers to himself in the singular. "I", by name, "Jesus"...."My" angel...

Only later revisionists worried about convincing the Jews they had a messiah in Jesus. The attempted link to David is another give away of a human hand and not "divine inspiration" being the source.

Jesus only spoke on behalf of God in the communal Jewish sense. To speak AS GOD himself would be arrogant and counter to the experience mentioned by pontius pilate.

The entirety of the Catholic faith is built this way upon deeds and parables of a teacher to common people.

Nothing of the early church was proprietary to a central authority. That was the act of sedition that got Jesus crucified under Roman law. There was no ownership of the spirit in Christ's message before the universal religion of the Roman empire came into existence.

The church WAS the people themselves. Now its the institutions and the people in the buildings with the uniforms.

There wasnt a singular ownership of the church as expressed by Christ many times. Jesus was adamant that not even HE should be the object of worship. He is Gods creation as we are.

Christ is our BROTHER. That too was written over by empire. Paul had a hand in the perversion, Peter by usurping Magdalena's role and that of her lineage, and the later church revisionists for carrying on the practice of immediate needs dictating interpretations of the forged word.

Sometimes the name "morning star" is used as a tool of understanding /foundation for steps of "Jacob's ladder" in the occult sense. /Understand the duality of God and creation. /Heaven Earth

originally posted by: MerkabaMeditation
Unless the Babylonian King is Lucifer, it seems they are talking about Satan here.

Read the context. The whole speech, from v3 to v23, is about the pride and coming destruction of Babylon.
"Morning star" is a title or label, and as such there is no reason why it should not be applied to more than one person. Christ and Nebuchadnezzar are both called "king". Obama and De Gaulle were both called "President". The coincidence has no significance.

I have posted about the evening star/morning star at my thread: Planetary Conjunction: Mars and Venus, October 5, 2017.

The link there is pretty informative.

Lucifer means "light bearer" and when Venus is the morning star, it appears in the sky just before dawn. Hence, it is bringing the sun.

Btw, you can still a glimpse of Mars and Venus in the morning. It is just that today was the closest approach.