Not only do we have Trump's golf course in Scotland, but his big ugly Bombs too

Can't get away from this.

Michael Fallon, the Defence Secretary, said Formidable Shield would combat the threat posed by North Korea and other “rogue states”, amid intensifying tensions between Kim Jong-un and Donald Trump.

Nato warships taking part in training off Scotland's west coast are defending themselves against incoming missiles fired with no prior warning given. Nato said this was the first time this had been done in Europe.

Am I right to be worried, that a little nation, Scotland, can be dragged into this global one - upmanship between a pair of braggards, each one as crazy as the other.

War Games
Missile tests in Scotland
Missile Interception tests


Going back to the early 80's the threat of a nuclear holocaust seemed very real, but only in respect of popular culture.
We had movies..When the Wind Blows, Threads, Mad Max etc
We had music..Frankie Goes to Hollywood ( Two Tribes ) ...OMD ( Enola Gay ) etc
We had public info service announcements and leaflets....Kiss your A$$ Goodbye

All of this had the effect of keeping us on edge, and for me at least, it worked. But this was almost 40 years ago, and the threat seemed real at the time. Now it is more real, and even scarier...bigly !

Now we have this 21st century soundbite, twitter style of constant fear-mongering...and you know what ? From what I am reading, no one seems to be that afraid anymore ! Oh yeah we have a stronger nuclear arsenal..we could easily wipe out an entire country, 3.5 million people...and still have time for a super delicious chocolate cake before bedtime (double scoop of ice-cream) Really ?
While the pages are jammed with " to kneel or not to kneel " ( seriously why aren't there more ' taking a knee ' ? ).....it is all starting to look like Trump and Kim together are taking us all to the brink....while everyone argues about what makes a patriot.
They do know that there is no going back, don't they ?

We have US bombs in Scotland, I don't want them here, I can't see how it is a deterrent, more like a target. The UK can't launch these war heads anyway, they are launched using US codes, from the US military.
Trident

I get the feeling that Trump would happily fiddle away, while the rest of us burn.

a reply to: cosmickat

Get in contact with the folks at the Faslane protest site and see if they are doing anything about it.

They usually focus on Trident breaking international laws but am sure they will have an eye on this.

Take a trip to see them and support what they do, Say hello to English Mark from me if you do.

You should start a movement to get your county to leave NATO.

"We have US bombs in Scotland, I don't want them here, I can't see how it is a deterrent, more like a target. The UK can't launch these war heads anyway, they are launched using US codes, from the US military."

Same for germany, the population is "not amused" about being a target. Only because of the fact that one of the most rogues states on earth(at least atm) uses almost the whole world as if would be "gods own" territory.

And we are not even allowed to have a-bombs, but if they are a-bombs of the former allegedly united states, then it is ok, somehow...

For the overseas bonded "german" government, not the people of germany!

There's a long tradition of NATO doing naval training exercises off our coast, that in itself isn't terribly unusual.

But as Nonspecific says, there is an organisation that's been trying to get the nukes out of Scotland.

The problem is the whole economy of Faslane and the surrounding area utterly depends on the nuclear submarines being there, so get rid of the subs, and thousands of peoples lives are ruined.

It's a tricky debate, I can see points on both sides of it.

If we had chosen Independence instead of Continuation of rule by a foreign country then we would'nt need to be worrying about any of this. The Missiles would have been long gone and Oil rig construction and maintenance would be in it's place.

a reply to: Soloprotocol

I thought oil was dangerous too and will lead to the end of the world as we know it.

a reply to: cosmickat

I think the issue here is this:

Nuclear weapons are no longer the primary defence against the possibility of being attacked with nuclear weapons. There are systems in existence which can mitigate the threat of nuclear assault, and not just one system, with one methodology at its disposal, but many systems. There are the advances being made in laser technology for the purposes of burning out missile engines, multiple kill vehicle systems, designed to engage and destroy incoming missiles, there are ground based systems, systems requiring orbital insertion, systems of various stripes.

Nuclear weapons are not like guns. In a situation where one person has a gun and the other has nothing but a rolled up newspaper, the guy with the broadsheet in hand is at a disadvantage, especially if he is too far away to close to directly engage the foe and disarm them. But nuclear war as a concept is not that way anymore, if it ever was. A nation with a sufficiently advanced missile defence system, does not need nuclear weapons as a deterrent against attempts at a nuclear assault, because if deployed correctly, its defence systems can totally mitigate that threat.

The only reason to maintain nuclear weapons stocks therefore, is to provide first strike capability, or simple revenge in the event of an attempt by another nation, to use nuclear force against ones own nation. First strike action of the nuclear variety, is an offence against the human race, and should not be permitted. Simple revenge in the event of a deflected attack by another nation, is equally reprehensible. If someone beats me with a packet of cotton wool, and I punch them in the mouth, I am the lesser man. If one reduces the threat posed by a nuclear assault against ones country, to a minimal level, and were to successfully fend off such an attack with ease, THEN respond with nuclear violence, it would, to my mind, be the same dishonour against ones nation, as if one had committed a first strike.

So, no modernised nation, with the capability to build itself an impenetrable defence cordon, has any reason to continue to possess or store nuclear weapons, or continue to research their construction.

a reply to: cosmickat


Think of the positive, it would be the most exciting thing to happen in Scotland since Mel Gibson saved it from the English.

a reply to: cosmickat

Congress and DC are impotent. Trump is doing just what he was hired to do. Burn it all down. Sorry, I didn't vote for him or one person in the current Congress.

The only reason we're here to begin with is left wing policies......

originally posted by: HeadCrunchMcRockGroin
The only reason we're here to begin with is left wing policies......

Any chance you could elaborate on that statement or is it just typical hit and run blame the left because you are right wing kind of bloke drivel?

originally posted by: nonspecific
a reply to: cosmickat

Get in contact with the folks at the Faslane protest site and see if they are doing anything about it.

They usually focus on Trident breaking international laws but am sure they will have an eye on this.

Take a trip to see them and support what they do, Say hello to English Mark from me if you do.

Indeed

Maybe that is the point I have reached, already joined a few marches ...but it might be time for me to invest in some heavy duty chain and padlocks....before my bones get too brittle

originally posted by: DerBeobachter
"We have US bombs in Scotland, I don't want them here, I can't see how it is a deterrent, more like a target. The UK can't launch these war heads anyway, they are launched using US codes, from the US military."

Same for germany, the population is "not amused" about being a target. Only because of the fact that one of the most rogues states on earth(at least atm) uses almost the whole world as if would be "gods own" territory.

And we are not even allowed to have a-bombs, but if they are a-bombs of the former allegedly united states, then it is ok, somehow...

For the overseas bonded "german" government, not the people of germany!

You just informed the world (America's enemies) how this works.

originally posted by: Soloprotocol
If we had chosen Independence instead of Continuation of rule by a foreign country then we would'nt need to be worrying about any of this. The Missiles would have been long gone and Oil rig construction and maintenance would be in it's place.

My top reason for voting Yes in our Indy Ref was just this issue.....there were others, but none as important as this.

Bairns not Bombs

a reply to: TrueBrit

So, no modernised nation, with the capability to build itself an impenetrable defence cordon, has any reason to continue to possess or store nuclear weapons, or continue to research their construction

As always TrueBrit, concise and bang on the button !

( no pun intended )

originally posted by: AugustusMasonicus
a reply to: cosmickat


Think of the positive, it would be the most exciting thing to happen in Scotland since Mel Gibson saved it from the English.

well I guess there is that

originally posted by: MOMof3
a reply to: cosmickat

Congress and DC are impotent. Trump is doing just what he was hired to do. Burn it all down. Sorry, I didn't vote for him or one person in the current Congress.

please, no need for apologies.
This kind of stuff is really outwith the control of the common man or woman.
TPTB hold all the cards, they put up the candidates...and give us Hobsons choice a lot of the time.

America has been storing it's filthy stinking WMD on British soil for 7 decades.

Perhaps if we did not have NATO command here also, we may have a leg to stand on telling them to take their crap home.

a reply to: HeadCrunchMcRockGroin

really? ok

left wing..right wing..alt-whatever
doesn't really matter when the SHTF does it ?
There won't be anyone left to blame