Hitting ESPN Where It Hurts Most

originally posted by: wishes
It is disrespectful to not stand for the national anthem/flag for the country you are a citizen in and the only reason they can get away with it is because there "is" freedom of speech in America - try doing that in China or North Korea or any Muslim country or another hundred places and see how much freedom you have - it is disrespectful to ALL those men and women who fought and died to GET that freedom - that's the problem. Is not about free speech, its about disrespecting ALL that America and Americans have done to have freedoms and is not about who is President or BLM or anything else. Its a "sports" game, not a political arena and by coercing entire teams to do this is pure peer pressure, just like banning free speech at Berkeley - haven't you noticed how "selective" this all is? How coincidentally they are shutting down ANY arena for people to discuss conservative views? It's a psy-ops, people - wakeup!

originally posted by: bluesilver
Can I ask why people feel that this is disrespecting your flag and your nation?

I'm trying to get my head around why some people on here are so angry about it because as far as I can see, people are trying to show that racism and violence is still affecting a huge demographic and they are doing it in a non violent way with as much resonance as possible.

So, are you saying that:

(1) People who are scared about where the US is going in relation to racism and violence, shouldn't bring it up during your recreational time when you want to watch tv and relax? Even if it is bringing the matter to prominence and hopefully starts a dialogue, in a non violent way?

(2) Or that you should you sing the national anthem no-matter how you are treated/abused by some of those in power?

(3) Isn't the national anthem about the free and the brave? Standing up for what is right and just? If it is, isn't it ironic that you want them to NOT do that in front of you?

(4) Why does it matter how much they make??? If you're rich why can't you still support your fellow man? How much money are you allowed to earn and still be allowed to have a voice? Why does money have any basis for excluding someone from saying that something is not right?

(5) Isn't the most important aspect of this, that you have a large amount of people who feel abused and disenfranchised from the country they live in, through no fault of their own. Isn't THIS what you should be trying to resolve? It seems like you are angry that people are voicing their opinions during your relaxing time, even though it is doing what it was designed to do, which is bringing the debate into the open in a non violet way.

I would genuinely be very interested to hear answers to these questions.

So do you wish your country didn't have freedom of speech like the countries you mentioned?

Soldiers fought for the ideals of your country, freedom, security, justice, equality. Surely if those ideals are not being adhered to by those in power, isn't it apt that people are silently protesting in a manner which highlights this to the fullest amount?

Have you spoken to any servicemen and women to see what their thoughts are? Do they see it as disrespecting what they have done? If I had served I wouldn't see the two things linked at all.

Is the National Anthem specifically about the armed forces, or is it about the the values of the country and its citizens?

Also, you seem to be of the opinion that people protesting for their rights to be treated equally is inappropriate at sporting events, rather than deal with the reasons to why they feel they have to. It seems like a bizarre thing to criticise. It's like some weird dystopian future where those that feel persecuted are criticised for objecting because it ruins the tv programme.

originally posted by: wishes
I guess it doesn't count that in between tweets the US economy was infused with trillions of dollars, over a million jobs have been created, food stamps are at their lowest in decades, the "secret" TPP was scrapped, small businesses are able to get going because he removed all the red tape and restrictions, illegal immigration is down upwards of 80+%, the Paris Climate Accord (If you actually know what was in it) was an abomination for the USA, and Trump has been blocked at every turn to get the wall built and get the Obamacare-bankrupt-the-American-people-made-by-big-insurance-companies plan scrapped. Amazing how people will just whine that he "tweets", lol - which take what, 15 seconds? The rest of the 18 hours a day he works tireless to stop the takeover of the country. You sound like a robot parroting the narrative created to divide the country by the globalists through their "controlled" media, Hollywood and national sports. Trump has done more good in the first months than Obama or Bill did in their entire terms. Why? Because Trump is NOT a globalist selling out the US like they did, he's trying to turn it around. Yeah, such a bad man for putting America first and protecting its borders and getting its own people to work and its own vets taken care of.

originally posted by: olaru12
a reply to: Blue_Jay33

This use to happen only during election cycles and then things went back to normal, now it is engraved in perpetuity.

I think it's to be expected when the Leader of the free world is more concerned with pandering to his base of supporters with silly macho tweets, racism and ego photo ops, than taking care of the nations more pressing problems.

It's ironic that you say that the Paris Climate Agreement was an abomination for the USA when scientists have said that the horrific weather you have been suffering lately has been made worse by climate change. So 'Putting America First" is not only isolationist in that you don't seem to want to work with anyone and instead want to start fights with other leaders around the world, including your allies, but is also technically wrong. It's a shame people think that the most important thing is putting America first rather than the planet. Such short term and damaging thinking.

People just don't get it. The point of free speech is for those players to be doing exactly what they are doing. And for anyone who is not trying to be intellectually dishonest, it is obvious they are not trying to "disrespect" the flag, and certainly not those who have served in the armed forces. It was up to the respective league front offices, be it the NFL, NBA etc. to make rules against this, if they so chose. They chose not to - railing against the players doing what they have the right to do, is ridiculous. Why would you be against what this country was founded on?

Or is it just convenient to be outraged when it's people protesting something you don't agree with?

originally posted by: olaru12
Amazing...

Trump thinks the neo nazi's and KKK are good people but feels the need to attack black athletes exercising their constitutional right to free speech.

I commend and respect the players, coaches, owners and managers of the NFL for standing together and resisting Trumps bullying tactics.

Man...this isn't another chance to beat up on Trump. At least not in that way (i'd rather see him worried about Puerto Rico...they are still a US territory, and they are really struggling).

This is all about the NFL being coaxed into monetizing patriotism by the DoD and some state governments, then stopping when they were found out. Prior to 2009, players usually weren't on the field. Once they were forced to go out and stnd for the national anthem (the league was pretty specific about how they were to stand and act in the rules, which still are in place in the league's rules), then it became an issue.

I can imagine that when the contract with the DoD ended, the NFL wasn't pleased about losing that revenue stream. And I can imagine that they are not really happy to provide a formerly paid service for free (the DoD paid them 53mil over 6 years for patriotic displays).

You are being played. The players are being played. Everyone is being played. This is a dispute between the federal government and the NFL.

Personally, I prefer that the government stay the hell out of my entertainment. And I prefer my entertainment to not try to politicize itself. The whole thing stinks. Trump is only the orange part of said stink.

a reply to: bigfatfurrytexan

Its just another example of how government meddling creates problems. Once the DoD stopped paying for a service that was put in place for them, Kaepernick had a stage for his shenanigans. Had the DoD never got involved to begin with the players would have never done this. After being made to stand, possibly against their will possibly not, it then became an issue. The stage was built by Uncle Sam, when they were running a propaganda campaign on us. Our sons. For the sole purpose of improving enlistment.

This is the real scandal. And instead, people worry about Trump's tweets and players acting petulant. It seems that the left and right are both running the distraction for the illusion.

And I have to ask myself why.

a reply to: Metallicus

Taking a knee in sports shows respect for injured players, both your team and opposing players.

President Trump's perpetual divisive and hateful rhetoric through all forms of media continues to divide and injure this nation. His duty as President is to do the precise opposite, unite and heal.

In times of institutional division and intolerance, sports and politics have been inextricably bound together.

From Jesse Owens in the 1936 Olympics proving the Nazi premise of physical superiority false,
To Jackie Robinson and the hatred he faced from team mates and fans as the first African American in the Major Leagues.

Mohammed Ali being stripped of his Championship titles for refusing to participate in the Viet Nam war.

JFK had to directly intervene and pressure the Washington Redskins to hire the NFL's first black player, Bobby Mitchell, a halfback and future Hall of Fame inductee, in 1962.

The 1980 Olympic Boycotts.

Political Protest is not disrespect of American values, it is very much a celebration of them IMO.

Our country is divided and wounded and our President is feeding the illness at best and the cause of it at worst.

Players taking a knee or linking arms in a show of unity in the face of division?

All good with me.

Want to protest with your dollars? Have at it. Good idea for you.

As for me, I take national pride when the players and managers of our National past-times stand up for what is right.

There are people who, of all the major sports, only watch the super bowl, and only for the half time show, not to be entertained in the traditional sense, but for the doom porn represented by any obvious symbolism in the rituals the half time shows include, such as masonic rituals and satanic rituals. For example, pantomiming verses of the book of revelations or forming massive checkerboards and flaming pentagrams. In this respect, the half time show acts like a barometer for the state of the world, in the apocalyptic sense, and forms the basis for discussion that one might get from watching the Omen or Dante's Peak.

There are obviously "home towns" with "home teams" in televised competitions, and there are religious zealots of certain sports, such as Basketball for the Mormons (Utah Jazz) and Jesuits (Gonzaga), and City/State allegiances (Cheeseheads, Yankees), but compared to the vast majority of sports fans, these groups are limited minorities unable to completely bankroll a deficit in the ESPN business model.

a reply to: Metallicus

I agree but what can you do?

I don't want politics interfering with my sports, I don't want political rhetoric when I'm trying to listen to the commentary, how would politicians feel if I was on a round table discussion debating the latest executive order and I mentioned the Packers game?

There is a time and a place for discussion. When It comes to ESPN they might've forgotten that they report on-I dunno..sport? I want stats, I want scores, I want injury news, I don't want to hear about the plight of the Baleen whale or whatever. A sports channel is for sport, simple as that.

Sadly this is the sad state of the sensationalist MSM-bad news is good news.

originally posted by: Thecakeisalie
a reply to: Metallicus

I agree but what can you do?

I don't want politics interfering with my sports, I don't want political rhetoric when I'm trying to listen to the commentary, how would politicians feel if I was on a round table discussion debating the latest executive order and I mentioned the Packers game?

Yea.. but seriously, before Trump had to spout off another tweet, how much did it -really- interfere with your sports? A 60 second clip everyone once in awhile in regards to a protesting player? The National Anthem happens regardless.. you are not losing anything just because a player stands vs. kneels. The only reason this has blown up, is specifically due to Trump.

When this first happened, this was more a "thing," but I heard very little last year, or this.. until the tweet. Now of course it's a big deal again. As long as Trump keeps his mouth shut, it will die off once again.

originally posted by: bigfatfurrytexan
a reply to: bigfatfurrytexan

Its just another example of how government meddling creates problems. Once the DoD stopped paying for a service that was put in place for them, Kaepernick had a stage for his shenanigans. Had the DoD never got involved to begin with the players would have never done this. After being made to stand, possibly against their will possibly not, it then became an issue. The stage was built by Uncle Sam, when they were running a propaganda campaign on us. Our sons. For the sole purpose of improving enlistment.

This is the real scandal. And instead, people worry about Trump's tweets and players acting petulant. It seems that the left and right are both running the distraction for the illusion.

And I have to ask myself why.

Most people are at work against their will, being paid millions, even if part of their work was to stand for the anthem they have nothing to complain about. And you shouldnt have to be paid to honor your country


Sjw marvel paid the price in comic sales for being antiamerican in their comics. Take illegal haven cali out and Trump wins the popular by over 1 million votes.

a reply to: Metallicus

Great, now we can focus on what builds good communities and a better Country. Away with this "bread and circus" and back to parenting and volunteering!

a reply to: Metallicus

I honestly don't understand why people are so offended by national anthem protests, yet nobody even talks about how people who commit crimes of domestic violence or DUIs are often given second and third chances in the NFL (and throughout sports) when that behvior is 1000 times more offensive than kneeling for a song.... Also it seems like the majority of people offended by this are the same folks who are super outspoken about political correctness and how it's ruining the country, yet expect everybody to cater to the military just because they are the military and be super politically correct when talking about the military. It's blatant hypocrisy and I know many folks in the military that aren't offended by it in the least. Should we really punish people for using freedom of speech? Forget the fact that domestic violence offends pretty much all women in the country and a large amount of men as well, if you offend the military and diehard patriots you are automatically painted as scumbag worse than killers and rapists. I'm honestly tired of the deification of military personnel. They are normal people like you and me, they aren't above anybody else. When people protest SOMEBODY will ALWAYS get offended. I'm so sick of people ignoring the problems in this country that they are protesting and instead making the protesters out to be the offenders. It's straight up laughable that protesting the anthem is consider worse than domestic abuse / racism and putting lives at risk via intoxicated driving.

In the 50s and 60s when people were protesting civil rights, those same type of people got super offended that blacks would sit in "white only" restaurants to protest. You can't make everybody happy all the time, and I'm sick of the military being treated like they are untouchable. The country was founded on non violent protest, and people offended over the national anthem need to grow up. The whole idea of non violent protest is how we get things done here. If you don't like it, leave the country. There is nothing wrong whatsoever with protesting the national anthem of your country when innocent people routinely get gunned down by police and the president is a known racist and promotes all kinds of offensive behavior. And yet those same offended people will call you a snowflake if you don't like their racist behavior or selfish attitude.

originally posted by: Thecakeisalie
I don't want politics interfering with my sports, I don't want political rhetoric when I'm trying to listen to the commentary, how would politicians feel if I was on a round table discussion debating the latest executive order and I mentioned the Packers game?

That's the problem though. People care more about entertainment and sports than they do about reality. The reason people are protesting in football is to spread awareness to more people. Sports don't do anything positive for society except keep us entertained, they do however have the power to reach hundreds of millions of people worldwide. I'm a huge NFL fan, but people really forget what's important and what's not.

a reply to: Xenogears

"Honor your country" is kinda silly. Why? Because it makes you feel better about things? Why this need to control what someone else does? Express outrage at everything.

From someone who truly doesn't care, I can say that it has been a real eye opener seeing the political faction that coined the term "snowflake" in response to the constant taking of offense over trivial things respond with sheer hypocrisy over this entire manufactured debacle.

The complete lack of concern in 2015 when the story broke that the DoD had been paying for these patriotic acts, while losing minds over this, only confirmed that people (on the whole) or morons who prioritize suggested thoughts from social media over their own thoughts (which they generally fail to conjure up to begin with).

It is all contrived. All of it. And the people are lapping it up like big old bowls full of bile.

a reply to: Metallicus

I disagree...I think people need to lighten up...nobody is doing much of anything with these protests. It's lame.

If you think patriotism is standing blindly for nationalism, then I guess you ought to just move to North Korea.

But honestly, here's a suggestion...Stop feeding the NFL troll. You say you had season tickets...those are expensive.

Why not join a hunting club and go shoot stuff that tastes good to eat? Hundreds of dollars if not thousands on NFL for nothing...go kill something and eat it.

I will watch a game if a manager decided to suspend a player or players that takes the knee. Otherwise I am out.

My wife and I are in discussion of the best way to dump cable. There are many options.

a reply to: Metallicus

When did sports turn from entertainment to the political beat? Where were these people when Obama took his misteps like waging war and droning more civilians than any President before him! This is all a beanie baby fad to them. Fake concern. It's easy to kneel, but it is hard to do the actual work. THEY ARE FAKE SUPPORTERS.

a reply to: Fools

I dumped cable years back, but I'm guessing my sports watching wasn't as heavy as yours. Apple TV has subscriptions to sports channels. I just use AppleTV and bought Netflix and Hulu which were $9 USD ea. My Cale bill was $85 USD a month and now I only pay $18 USD a month and see all the same things I did before with less commercials too!

originally posted by: thepixelpusher
a reply to: Metallicus

When did sports turn from entertainment to the political beat? Where were these people when Obama took his misteps like waging war and droning more civilians than any President before him! This is all a beanie baby fad to them. Fake concern. It's easy to kneel, but it is hard to do the actual work. THEY ARE FAKE SUPPORTERS.

Well they succeeded because more people are talking about this than ever before. There is nothing wrong with taking a stand for what you believe in. That's how this country was founded and how things have been getting done for centuries. It wasn't too long ago that it was considered highly offensive for a black person to eat in a white restaurant or to sit in the front of the bus. Thank goodness for non violent protest. The only fake people are the ones who are yelling about snowflakes and painting liberals as easily offended yet they get butthurt over THIS? The players are doing it this way because they have the ability to reach hundreds of millions of people that way.

a reply to: Metallicus

Said like a true Patriot.