Is the God of Genesis 1 El or Yam?

a reply to: Sahabi

So yes I am able to prove that God was sovereign and Elah/Al-Illah worshipped monotheistically before Mohammed saws.

The Jews were Monotheistic at the time and worship Allah, the Sabeans are also considered to have worshipped Allah in similar fashion to the Muslims.


I don't see your point.

Are you saying Islam is pagan or what is the point of your question. Whay exactly IS ypur question?

I am telling you you said something about my comments in relation to Islam about Christianity also being applicable to Islam.

Show me how that is true...

You are just asking questions not proving whay you said was true.

You claimed it so the burden is yours to prove it not mine to disprove what you didn't even state was your reason for the statement itself about my comments which in no way are applicable to Islam.

So you bring up pagan Arabia?

Islam doesn't believe what they did and it was a cause of persecution for the Muslims by the pagan Arabs their enemies.

So how does their belief apply to ours?

I will tell you, in no way whatsoever.

In fact while Christianity began Monotheistic it ended up paganized.

The exact opposite is true of Sunni Islam.

It was never pagan but sprang from paganism like Judaism and Christianity lapsed into idolatry from Monotheism.

So you don't have much to offer in the way of supporting the allegation you made about Islam based on my criticism of Xtianity.

a reply to: Disturbinatti

I have a lot to say and illustrate, but am being careful to follow our present dialogue instead of going-off on tangents. Please be patient as our discussion blossoms. I am preparing a more elaborate post.

With my most recent replies; I am illustrating this;

"El" has always been the "Father of the Gods" and ruler of the heavenly pantheon of Gods. The religion of the Hebrew-Israelites emerged from this system and simply tried to change it to favor their national God; YHWH.

Point being: if a Hindu decided to cast away their entire pantheon to only accept and acknowledge Kali,.... or if a follower of the Greco-Roman traditions decided to follow only Poseidon and reject the other Olypians and Titans,.... would you consider this a pure respresentation of monotheistic worship of the Most High?

The foundations and roots of Abrahamic Monotheism rest on the pedestal of Canaanite Polytheism. If they wanted to worship a truly sovereign God, they should not have chosen to reinvent Elism. Abrahamic Monotheists simply cherry-picked the original existent "Father of the Gods" El and re-wrote their theology to make this Semetic Father into a solitary deity.

It's like choosing a single character from a cartoon, whitewashing all other characters, rewriting the story, then claiming it has nothing to do with the original cartoon.

Please be patient, more points are coming.

a reply to: Sahabi



I respect your opinion but my question is simple.

You stated what I said about Christian theology is applicable to Islam in certain aspects to paraphrase you.

Isolate the words I said that this applies to.

Tell me how it applies to Islam.

And that should be sufficient to prevent any tangents.

originally posted by: Utnapisjtim
The supposed name of God is Heb. אלהים «Elohim».

No, that's not a name, that's just saying "God" in Hebrew. Just like "Allah", the Arabic word for "God" isn't a name. And neither is the Hebrew word for "name" (hashem) a name. And neither is the Hebrew word for "lord" a name (or the English words for that matter, none of these words are God's distinctive personal name).

Genesis 2:4

This is a history of the heavens and the earth in the time they were created, in the day that Jehovah* God made earth and heaven.

*: The first occurrence of God’s distinctive personal name, יהוה (YHWH).



JW ARCHIVES DIVINE NAME JHWH YHWH JEHOVAH NWT NIV COMPARE. (playlist)

Don't miss the follow-up videos in that playlist regarding the ending of the video linked above.

a reply to: whereislogic



Allah is God's name in Arabic.

1 of 99.

Elohim/Hashem/YHVH/Adonai.

ALL NAMES.

Same God.

a reply to: whereislogic



You seriously don't know what Elohim means?

YHVH-Elohim are the 2 main names of God in Hebrew .

YHVH gets swapped for Hashem.

By definition meaning "The Name."

One of 72 in Judaism all names, Shems.

Everytime I see your screen name I want to ask you that. I am realizing now you are legit looking for that which you don't posess.

It's because you need knowledge first.
P

a reply to: whereislogic



I mean are you Muslim?

Because I am.

And I am factually certain Perfect Name is what Allah is for God.

Ilah without Al is generic.

Al-illah is Allah and a NAME.

You are wrong almost in every message I see of yours all the time.

Ever wonder why?

originally posted by: Utnapisjtim

Generally these stories tell us that Yam was the god of water, oceans, rivers and seas, and was a sort of anthropomorphism of water and oceans, so his temper and personality reflected his personality as anything from calm and innocent like a lamb, just to suddenly transform into a furious monster threatening to destroy all living things with massive floods. El was Yam's father and together they fought side by side as enemies of Baal who was the Old Testament Devil, I bet you have at least heard of the latter.


In Genesis 1 God is awfully concerned with water, busy dividing and moving about seas and waters and Elohim even relates to the cosmos as oceans. To top this, water in all shapes and forms was the traditional domain of Yam in the eyes of the Semitic population living in Canaan and the area in and around today's Palestine/Israel, back in the days when Genesis was supposed to have been written.

God is not a person.
God is all that is.
God is the ocean and what appears is the ocean waving.
The waving makes the ocean appear as if it is not one but many.

The belief is that there is a you separate from 'other things' - but the you that appears is just a wave appearing in the one ocean. There is only the ocean - there is only what is. There is only the only - that is, whatever actually is.

God is all that exists.
Look now to what actually exists and then wonder about what is seeing this that is appearing to exist.
God is all seeing and all knowing and always present - notice that what appears to be seen is constantly disappearing always presently.
The ocean is always present but it always appears different because it is waving.

The confusion lies in the belief that you are separate to all that is - there is only all that is.

originally posted by: Itisnowagain

originally posted by: Utnapisjtim

Generally these stories tell us that Yam was the god of water, oceans, rivers and seas, and was a sort of anthropomorphism of water and oceans, so his temper and personality reflected his personality as anything from calm and innocent like a lamb, just to suddenly transform into a furious monster threatening to destroy all living things with massive floods. El was Yam's father and together they fought side by side as enemies of Baal who was the Old Testament Devil, I bet you have at least heard of the latter.

Baal isn't satan or the devil he was the son of El to the Canaanites and worshipped by Hebrews from time to time. A lot actually.

Satan, or the devil/adversary isn't.

Baal means Prince/Lord/Master.

As in Baal Shem Tov the Rabbi?

In Genesis 1 God is awfully concerned with water, busy dividing and moving about seas and waters and Elohim even relates to the cosmos as oceans. To top this, water in all shapes and forms was the traditional domain of Yam in the eyes of the Semitic population living in Canaan and the area in and around today's Palestine/Israel, back in the days when Genesis was supposed to have been written.


******
God is not a person.
God is all that is.

To a pantheist.

To God worshippers God is a Spirit apart from creation, the Creator.

God is the ocean and what appears is the ocean waving.
The waving makes the ocean appear as if it is not one but many.

The belief is that there is a you separate from 'other things' - but the you that appears is just a wave appearing in the one ocean. There is only the ocean - there is only what is. There is only the only - that is, whatever actually is.

Asherah also is associated with the sea, Lady Asherah of the Sea. Yam is one water god but not the only.

And it's an extinct religion that isn't what dictates Judaism's faith. They are Monotheists.

edit on 24-6-2017 by Disturbinatti because: (no reason given)

a reply to: Disturbinatti

Can you repost because you have quoted me saying something that I didn't and the rest is a bit confusing too?

a reply to: Itisnowagain


I don't what is going on.


But all I said was you are correct if a pantheist.

Pretty much it.

originally posted by: Itisnowagain
a reply to: Disturbinatti

Can you repost because you have quoted me saying something that I didn't and the rest is a bit confusing too?

I quoted everything like I always do it just didn't work.


But God to Monotheism is a Spirit apart from creation, the Creator. Infinite eternal.

Matter isn't permanent, can't really be God. You can worship ir but I don't think it will appreciate it being inanimate.

originally posted by: Disturbinatti
a reply to: Itisnowagain


I don't what is going on.


But all I said was you are correct if a pantheist.

Pretty much it.

Why label me a 'pantheist'? Why is everyone so caught up in labels?
This is why there is conflict and not peace. God is what there is and what there is is un-namable. It is all these labels and names that divide the whole - is division - is conflict.

God is what is seeing and knowing. Every eye is seeing from the same place and it is all the concepts - words - labels - names that veil this truth.

But God to Monotheism is a Spirit apart from creation, the Creator. Infinite eternal.

Matter isn't permanent, can't really be God. You can worship ir but I don't think it will appreciate it being inanimate.

There is no creator separate from what there is - there is only what there is.
What is seen is constantly changing but what is SEEING is never changing - have you noticed?
Saint Francis of Assisi said 'We are looking for what is looking'.

originally posted by: Itisnowagain
God is what is seeing and knowing. Every eye is seeing from the same place and it is all the concepts - words - labels - names that veil this truth.

God is what can't be seen but is omnipresent.

Can't be known but omniscient.

Created all but is uncreated.

Some Sufis are pantheistic but only insofar as they believe they can unite with God and the Universe.

I love Mysticism but to me it isn't Islam. You can be a mystical Monotheist, but to each their own I like the Sufis anyway.

Accept the ones who sold out to the intel agencies. I have no respect for them.

Baal is probably "horus" the reborn osiris ... same thing satan with a longer schlong

There is only the presence of the lord.
Presence is what is present - is there anything other than now?

What is happening is another way of saying now - is there ever anything other than what is happening? The idea that there is something other than what is happening could be happening but still it is what is happening.
What is occuring is what there is - but this is denied by the belief that there is something else - somewhen else, somewhere else. Thought, words, language make believe there is other and one is lead astray. Where is seeing and hearing happening?

The words tell stories and this that actually is is denied. This is the image of God - this that is appearing here and now and a separate person is made 'within' this image. There is nothing separate from what is happening ever.
This is God - there is no escape and no one to escape.