Stop sending your kids to college and stop going to college, Why the Economy Sucks Exhibit B

a reply to: schuyler

The thing that is supposed to happen is pay is supposed to go up if they can't find applicants. That is not happening. There are reasons you drive by fast food places and they have open jobs, and engineering firms have open jobs fr months or years. Pay-benefits.

a reply to: BELIEVERpriest
Sounds like every kid should get a participation trophy...

originally posted by: rickymouse
Employers used to train the workers before. The worker started out at a reduced wage and worked their way up to the top pay within four or five years. But the workers got paid for learning. I trained quite a few workers in my life, They went on to other jobs with a good reference.

Our society has turned sideways now, I do not know how that could possibly happen, most of the things kids go college for could be learned on the job. I think that the Education field is poisoning our youngs minds, not everyone needs to go to college. You just need to learn proper work ethics when you are done, they do not teach that in school evidently.

They still do through unions.

a reply to: toysforadults

I'm in IT which is dangerously close to automation.

I am in IT too. I'm interested to know what you're referring to specifically? I've actually automated a few people out of jobs at my company and I'm considering a project right now that would eliminate a couple positions in accounting. I predict continuing growth in IT — though the types of jobs will undoubtedly shift here and there.

Are you uhhh... hmmm.. so which is it?

Not sure what you're asking?

a reply to: VekTorVik

That's not what I'm saying at all. In fact that is the opposite. I'm saying let those who can learn independently have the opportunity to teach themselves, and let those who need to be spoon fed information pay for tuition. That will keep competition high and prices low.

a reply to: theantediluvian

TensorFlow

I don't see why networking professionals can't be automated out of a job especially with SDN/ Deep learning (Tensorflow example).

IT is already being more and more centralized. The market is very competitive at lower levels but still remains open to those who put in the work to get to the top.

a reply to: toysforadults

I disagree... My undergrad catapulted my earning potential significantly after graduation. I paid my own way through, took on debt, graduated, found my career, and quickly had all my loans paid off. Its possible, just too many kids are taking pointless majors...

a reply to: jhn7537

I agree that SOME kids may be taking fruitless majors but unless you can provide me with a statistics that support that position I am going to have to assume that not every single kid in college who graduates that has a rough time in the economy has a Poli Sci degree.

In fall 2016, some 20.5 million students are expected to attend American colleges and universities, constituting an increase of about 5.2 million since fall 2000 (source).

20 million liberal arts degrees?

How many students does an engineering program require in order to continue???

nces.ed.gov

You know whats funny?

I have a very hard time figuring out how many students there in what program.

I would love for one of you to provide those stats.

a reply to: schuyler

Ever wonder why the UC motto is, "Let there be light" ?

Esoteric, huh?

Education is one thing. Experience is another.

a reply to: BELIEVERpriest

But isn't that what we already have?

If I read I'm reading your post correctly, you suggesting testing out of college courses, which is possible.

Attendance was never a requirement for any class I ever took. You have already paid, so they don't care if you show up or not. You are graded on the material you submit, so it is possible to do exactly what you are describing.

When I first read your post I thought you were suggesting college testing be adjusted for ability. Sorry about that.

a reply to: toysforadults

College is either a waste or a great investment depending what field of study you go into.

Healthcare professional , engineering, math, and sciences are good fields to go into.

I agree the cost is ridiculous, when i went to engineering school i was able to pay my way by waiting tables and only took the classes i could pay for. Sometimes only one class , sometimes 4 classes a semester. The key is to go into a field of study that is lucrative and once you start dont quit. And pay as you go as much as possible.

I also took as much classes as I could at my local community college that would transfer to my university to save money.

To combat the cost for my child so he doesnt have to do what i did, I did the florida prepaid from the time he was born till he was 5 years old. His college is paid for for any flordia state university and all fees are paid for and hopefully he chooses to attend.

College is not a waste but you have to plan logically and not listen to the fairy tale that people say such as go into a field you love . While i agree that you won't be successful at something you hate , it also doesnt make sense to go into a field of study that leaves you with 60k+ in debt and a low paying job or difficult job to acquire.

In my case i was lucky i loved what i was doing , but i new their was money to be made once i graduated. I also enlisted in a co-oo program to build contacts in my field and get a feel what the work and pay entailed.

Good luck I know its not easy but can be done and if you are a parent i suggest you look into a pre pay program in your state.

My education opened many opportunities for me and has paid for itself over and over again.

Another tip : your worth is relative to the demand for your skill set. That applies to everything including non college graduates.

Try to go into a non flooded specialty niche and you will be fine.

a reply to: VekTorVik

Why should I have to pay for their entire program and their over priced books, when I should be able to just pay for a test. Tuition and books is way overpriced. That's the problem.

a reply to: toysforadults

From your source....

In 2014, about 73.5 percent of 25- to 34-year-olds with a bachelor's or higher degree in the labor force had year-round, full-time jobs, compared with 65.8 percent of those with an associate's degree, 61.6 percent of those with some college education, 65.3 percent of high school completers, and 55.1 percent of those without a high school diploma or its equivalent (source). In 2015, the unemployment rate for young adults with at least a bachelor's degree was lower than the rate for young adults with some college (2 vs. 6 percent), and the unemployment rate for young adults with some college was lower than the rate for those who had completed high school (9 percent) (source). In 2014, for young adults ages 25–34 who worked full time, year round, higher educational attainment was associated with higher median earnings; this pattern was consistent from 2000 through 2014. For example, in 2014 the median earnings of young adults with a bachelor's degree ($49,900) were 66 percent higher than the median earnings of young adult high school completers ($30,000). The median earnings of young adult high school completers were 20 percent higher than the median earnings of those without a high school credential ($25,000). In addition, median earnings of young adults with a master's or higher degree were $59,100 in 2014, some 18 percent higher than the median earnings of young adults with a bachelor's degree

While this doesn't provide examples of employment between those with a technical degree or a liberal arts degree, it does give credibility to the benifits of a college education.

a reply to: BELIEVERpriest

They are overpriced, but that is the cost. You can apply for grants and scholarships. You can apply for loans. Or you can do nothing and write on some conspiracy website about how unfair it is.

College is only worthless if you aim for a useless, dead, or dying industry. IT springs to mind as an example of a dying one, stupid s# like Womens' History being an example of a useless one. Don't try to ride the coattails of a restructured industry that's had it's proverbial Efficiency Revolution while you watch (that's just dumb) and don't aim for one that is utterly useless beyond rubbing it in faces for smugness' sake. Save those for personal indulgence courses someday, if interest prevails.

One thing we need to work on is to stop shaming/pressuring people into college when they have no interest & no game plan. Save it for when that career lightbulb goes off & something really sings to you. No shame in sorting that out first, as opposed to going back over & over again changing careers like clothing.

Ultimately, we're going about higher education the wrong way to begin with, IMO. Maybe some day, humanity will grow TF up and learn for the sake of learning & personal growth, not to get rich quick, or be a degree braggart.

originally posted by: VekTorVik
a reply to: BELIEVERpriest

They are overpriced, but that is the cost. You can apply for grants and scholarships. You can apply for loans. Or you can do nothing and write on some conspiracy website about how unfair it is.

What you are suggesting is entirely unnecessary. Education expense is at an all time high, and the quality is at an all time low. So why continue rewarding the system by paying their prices (even with the "help" of grants and loans). We need to give people the opportunity to cut the middle men out to bring prices down, quality up, and reduce the amount of time wasted.

I don't understand why you have a problem with that. Maybe you're insecure about the fact that other people don't need the system that you thought you needed.

The idea that you need a four year bachelors degree to teach third graders always amazed me.
I also have a hard time feeling sorry for someone that gets a liberal arts degree.
Apparently it never occurred to them to ask the average earning potential of the education.

a reply to: VekTorVik

StudentLoanHero

STUDENT DEBT STATISTICS BY LOAN STATUS (DIRECT LOAN PROGRAM)
Loans in repayment $478.6 billion 15.7 million borrowers
Loans in deferment $107.3 billion 3.5 million borrowers
Loans in forbearance $96.2 billion 2.6 million borrowers
Loans in default $67.5 billion 4.0 million borrowers
Loans in grace period $50.1 billion 2.0 million borrowers

4 million loans in default, 2.6 in forbearance, 3.5 in deferment and 2 million with a grace period.

While I agree with you that it is good for some and CAN be good it is as a whole not good for society.

Education is the best investment a person can make.
Liberal arts or gender studies....not so much.
Not all programs are wasteful.

Engineering school has been the best decision I ever made and I would always support those who choose to better themselves. It's not easy, it's tedious and I'm not even done yet. Plus, I am non traditional so my age sets me apart from my peers.

I see far too often kids get pushed into going with no true direction and end up not cutting it for STEM majors and settling for lesser majors that wouldn't even pay their tuition debt off in 20 years.

My opinion is for those who want to go, stop at nothing to succeed. You can finish at any age, and at any time in your life.

Is it a scam? Probably, but there is no way I can learn Calculus 3 on my own.

a reply to: BELIEVERpriest

You don't have to pay for their entire program or overpriced books. I got my foot in a company that provided tuition assistance. I tested out of every single thing I could. From CLEP to Dantes. I purchased my book online for a fraction of the cost, and when the course was over resold them. Many times I made a profit on the books. There is always a way. I went to a traditional college but I took mostly online classes. I did this while working full time with two kids. There were many late nights. There were some classes that were irrelevant, but overall I really did learn a lot, and use that knowledge today. In class you are also able to network with others in your field. This part might be the more valuable than the actual class. Getting a degree only opened doors for me, and I graduated without any debt. It took me longer but it is doable. My suggestion for most kids, is to get as many AP classes while in High school. It is actually quite possible to get 2 years of college paid at the high school level. It takes a lot of sacrifice and I shake my head when people say you can't do it without debt. There are complainers and there are doers. The very first lesson my Drill Sergeant dad taught me, is that life isn't fair. As soon as you get that in your head the better off you will be!