schools must allow for minority students to speak in ebonics

a reply to: crazyewok

ok, ewok, here's the thing.

This UNDERGRAD "researcher" (means she has not yet graduated from the university) interviewed THREE COLLEGE STUDENTS. That was the extent of her 'research'. It's ridiculous, and obviously an example of the most egregious so-called "research" that can be done to shore up idiotic ideas.

Much ado about nothing.
She and her three friends are mistaken. Keep up the good work!!

well someone needs to be able to understand everyone as to the fact that no one can speak English anymore in this country. Can't read nor write

I suppose THIS would be a bad time to get everyone to sign a petition to get Rosetta Stone to teach Klingon..I'll just SLIDE out then...

originally posted by: cavtrooper7
I suppose THIS would be a bad time to get everyone to sign a petition to get Rosetta Stone to teach Klingon..I'll just SLIDE out then...

I'd be all over that. My daughter is getting annoyed with me sending her texts in Klingon, perhaps this could be a more effective way to make her learn?

Spoken as the sad, sad nerd who has both the dictionary and language tapes

originally posted by: prepared4truth



Lol I love when people bring up Martin Luther King Jr. I love the ignorance in using flowery language to praise him for his oratory skills, which led to his death and the destruction of his people.

That is utter rubbish. To which people are you referring? Individuals he knew, or the great mass of people of colour in the United States? Because his immediate family and friends were not slaughtered en mass, and people of colour still live now, not in slavery, not barred from working, not barred from education, not barred from playing professional sports, or from taking part in political endeavours both at street, and executive level. His people are not destroyed. They yet live, so what, exactly are you talking about?

After that famous speech that most White folk love to parade him around for, he made many remarks that contradicted the core message of that speech. Remarks such as, "I may have integrated my people into a burning house." You know, right before he died he stopped using that flowery language. He started talking about reparations. And then he was killed.

Did he now? Did he start talking like a six year old with a hatred for vowels? No, no he did not. Did he start talking like a gansta rapper with a speech impediment? No, no he did not do that.

Non-violence was a palatable message for tyranny, one that could be used and IS still used to keep the sheep in line. So that when we are discontent with the pen they've made for us, we do anything but actually fight to escape the system.

It was not a message but a method, and as it happens, it stands today as one of the single greatest monuments to good sense, that any person opposing the status quo, has ever managed to erect. Acting in a paramilitary fashion, toward the US government, the law, and the fascist factions amongst the population of the country at the time, would have seen those acting in that fashion terminated with extreme prejudice, and with the full support of even the most equality loving individuals you could hope to have bumped into at the time. The methods employed by MLK and his friends and associates, were effective because ONLY racist, black hating folk would have been able to argue with their methods. Regular people, not under the sway of the haters at the time, were able to engage with the message of peaceful resistance, because it made no monsters, created no demons, and by engaging people of that sort, saw support for civil rights grow, outside communities traditionally affected by a lack of civil rights.

I can understand that these things happened a great many years ago now, and that the collective memory of the human race is not nearly that long, so there is every excuse to be confused as to the reality of the period concerned, or indeed the plight of those living at the time. I am sure that it SEEMS perfectly legitimate to equate whatever relative inconvenience you have suffered, with the mortal danger that being of the "wrong" skin tone represented in the sixties, but it just is NOT legitimate to compare the two things, because they are not like unto one another.

If you think you know what it was like to be in MLKs shoes, or anyone elses during that time, regardless of your particular skin colour, I hate to be the one to break it to you, but you literally know nothing about it. The level of danger people of colour were in during that period, has no modern equivalent, unless you happen to be both Arabic and homosexual, as well as living in Saudi Arabia, or Chechnya, for example. THOSE people know EXACTLY what it felt like for people of colour in the sixties and previous. You? Not so much, regardless of what your skin tone, origins or beliefs are. First world problems, thats what people have today in developed nations. First world, non-problems which when compared to anything actually worthy of note, mean nothing what so ever.

Now, you might never see English as a tool of your oppressor. In your example of comparing Americans to Britains, they spoke English BEFORE THEY LEFT. But I want you to try a little something called Empathy (not to be confused with sympathy). Our language was STRIPPED from us. English was literally forced onto us. So yes, it is a tool of our oppressors and it is in this spirit that most of the Black Marxists and other revolutionaries throughout history have inspired and influenced global change in the way we fight tyranny.

With respect, you are getting things around your neck here. YOU were not denuded of a language. Your ancestors, of hundreds and hundreds of years ago were, but you were not, your mother was not, your mothers mother was not, and neither was her mother. We are talking HUNDREDS of years ago, and you bare about as much relation to the individual in your line who actually WAS stripped of their language, as I do. Thats just how it is. I mean, if we are going to get all historical about this, the Romans can go do something erotic to themselves with a cactus, because they murdered all our druids, forced Latin on as many of us as they could tie a rope around, and generally messed up our collective will as a people, turning us from relatively peaceful, self sustaining island dwellers, into an empire building powerhouse, to my shame and the shame of all True Brits. But realistically, the Romans did not do a damn thing to me personally, it was all a very long time ago, and no, I do not bash Italians over the head about it, every time I talk to one, or about one.

Look at NOW, what the English language is NOW. It is a language which provides bridges between other languages, is the language used to discuss and publish scientific papers, the language in which a huge percentage of the worlds business is conducted in. It literally keeps information flowing between more territories, more minds, than any other language on the planet. In THIS day and age, it is a force for good, a tool used to free more people than it enslaves, and to move the human race as a whole, forward, not backward.

So tell me again, why do YOU, the person who has never known anything other than a situation in which the things I have stated are the case, have a problem with the language? Because if your problem with the language spoken in your country is about what it USED to mean, then you have bigger problems than what language you would rather speak, because your entire priority assessment system is in absolute ruin!

a reply to: TrueBrit

This is an incredibly racist thread.

I live in the deep south and sometimes can't understand people at all. Sometimes they are white. My son had a teacher I couldn't understand she was white. She taught math.

Most people teach within the collequelisms they grow up in. Proper English is not taught in regards to conversational English that takes place in class. Teachers themselves of any color use regional collequelisms.

If this was about teaching the entire country to speak English. Including everyone that says y'all, and fixing to, then it would have a point. It's however is pointing out a sub dialect that belongs to specifically blacks.

I imagine you have no idea how this started since you appear ignorant of history here. Maybe it's because you were raised in the UK?

So in black culture during segregation, and from the mass of illiteracy during slavery and then the second class education, was created a vernacular. As they faught in their own platoons, sat in their own sections, danced in their own clubs, the vernacular solitified over decades. The history of jazz is an interesting one to observe the story of segregarion, it's well documented because of ties to academics.

Black banking and wealth management were met with massive pushback. Black bussinesses burned and forced to stay segregated.

Do you have any idea what that does for building wealth? Now, plenty of people with nothing have built empires. The segregation aspect is the difference. If your Irish, you can work your but off to loose your accent, if your gay you can stay in the closet, if your black you can't really hide your skin color. The building of wealth for blacks was immoraly hampered by segregation, and ithe had a significant effect on the ability to create wealth that can pass to heirs. So cornerstones and helping hands higher up were not nearly as available.

Then throw in Johnson's "war on poverty" once segregation is brought down.

And shazam..hand outs for votes. At this point the race riots, lynchings, beatings etc had nearly reached their climax. A perfect time to start throwing bread as the saviour.

If you don't think the US government is responsible for mishandling the transition from slavery, segregation, to full freedom you just aren't thinking this through.

Now do I think everyone should learn to pronounce words in School. Absolutely. But the white kids I can't understand too. Even though they don't have a name for the funny way they speak.

a reply to: luthier

I am going to state once again, what has this got to do with right now?

And the answer will continue to be NOTHING WHAT SO EVER!

Yes, the US government mishandled EVERYTHING to do with the civil rights situation, at every corner, every way point, they dropped the ball, and more often than not permitted crimes against humanity and a whole other plethora of terrible choices, which are echoed in the modern day, by the ridiculous treatment of Arabian nations as political footballs, rather than places where people actually live.

However, what is the specific situation, today, with regard to the African American community? Because unless you are going to tell me, that there is ANYTHING like what was happening during segregation, then frankly, someone needs their eyes checking. Last I checked, there are African American judges, police officers, council members, members of congress and the senate, there was, up until the massive swing to the right wing which bought the Marmalade Monster into power, an African American PRESIDENT of the country. Are there still problems with racists? Absolutely. Is it systemic, from the White House downward? Not for a long damned time.

And as it happens, I believe that yes, English should be taught the same way, to all people, regardless of societal or racial matters. And by the same way, I mean STRICTLY and CORRECTLY, preferably by a tutor who lacks any kind of an accent, either by birth or training, and is prepared to teach his or her pupils the proper diction associated with every word they ever have to read, write or hear.

With those lessons under their belts, students should be free, in their personal lives and communications with social contacts, to abuse the language to their hearts content, and no one is saying otherwise. However, while in class, one must engage properly with the subject material, in order to get the most out of it.

a reply to: TrueBrit

Well we agree on the last part.

What does it have to do with right now? You learn to speak from your parents and schools don't teach people how to speak correctly. It's going to take a while to overcome that kind of adversity as a whole when it was just a few decades ago. When your grandma had dogs sicker on her and your dad was subject to the war on poverty, the war on drugs, mandatory minimums etc. My point is those things were injustice by the government that ripple through today. The poor of any color are pawns.

I certainly am not saying the blm movement or that type of attitude is healthy in its extreme form, but the black history of this country requires consideration. Which I am very opposed to creating separate systems like ebonics in education, or latinos to graduate without speaking english.

However, the entire southern dialect needs work if that's what we are talking about,..across the board. This seemed like a thread to male fun of how black people talk.

Yoruba! Who have they turned you into?

a reply to: luthier

Certainly is not how I have been interacting with this thread. My concern is rather the opposite. The English language, if learned with a will, is a gateway to futures better than those generally attained by those who have a poor grasp of the language, regardless of skin tone. It is, therefore, absolutely necessary that the same language and uses of language, are learned by ALL children in state education, never watered down, made easier, or bastardised to any greater extent than it already has been by the morons who wrote the American version of the dictionary (Aluminium is the correct spelling. That is TWO letter i's, NOT one).

It MUST be learned entire, precisely so that children cannot be held back by their dialects, in communications with higher education providing facilities, or with employers, the government, and other groups with which EVERY person must communicate in adult life. These communications HAVE to be clear and concise, no matter who they are with, or where the individual representing those companies or organisations happens to be based, what community they came out of, or even which country they are in. For that, a standardised, non-local familiarity with the English language is of paramount importance.

a reply to: TrueBrit

I don't know that you have but be weary of its intent. If it's just another case of American education failure sure. But if you see some comments it doesn't appear to be about that.

I think the answer to fixing some "racial" issues is in teaching a man to fish. However, the us political system had other intentions for years until very recently and even so the hand out mentality destroys ambition. So I was saying there is something to examine here as a way to move forward. Maybe people don't want to teach people to fish, even though they may pretend that is the best thing to do. Like saying that and then districting schools across racial lines, creating the war on poverty, war on drugs etc.

I don't think you can ignore it, but I think if your saying it shouldn't be a crutch either I agree.

a reply to: EvillerBob

I ...just DRAW the stuff ...can't retain .

originally posted by: cavtrooper7
a reply to: EvillerBob

I ...just DRAW the stuff ...can't retain .

Did you draw your avatar? Seriously?

I'm very impressed.









I'd like to help you feel more calm. But I know from torturous experience that I can't. Not really. It's too painful. I used to try my best to help folks like you to feel more comfortable in your own skin and mind......

There are plenty in Louisiana that have spoken Cajun dialect all their lives....unless homeschooled, I don't see the system allowing that, and it has been around far longer than ebonics.

If they want to teach it, then teach it as a secondary language as Spanish is.

It is "bastardized" English like "Spanglish"...

Oh wait....we need to be PC...so let's just make the already underpaid teachers we have learn an entirely different manner of speaking...that won't single out kids and make anyone feel marginalized at all right?

Ebonics came from slavery days people....anyone know any recent slaves in the US? No? Then why are they still speaking Ebonics?

Evolve or die...that is how mother nature and the earth itself rule...nothing to do with politics or trophies...

a reply to: BuzzyWigs

I ah...rediscovered a certain SUBSTANCE in barracks after Desert Storm and drew that . I was trying to CATCH the essence of the SPIRIT of ares as an idea.
It's not ugly enough really.BUT it appealed to me so I got that tattoo,NOW its BLEEDING and looks smudged and theres NO WATY I'd have the spare cash top gussy it up.
I am an unrealized Sci Fi artist cause of PTSD..

cavtrooper wrote:

It's not ugly enough really.BUT it appealed to me so I got that tattoo,NOW its BLEEDING and looks smudged and theres NO WATY I'd have the spare cash top gussy it up.
I am an unrealized Sci Fi artist cause of PTSD..

That looks totally realized to me.
Success with that is completely within your reach.

You drew this ^ !!! It's amazing!!

we have english classes for a reason. teachers are paid to instruct their students on what is the professional way to do things with the understanding that at some point, they will be paid for being competent or proficient in such skills. dont make excuses for students who simply refuse to perform to state standards, just fail them and let them enjoy the consequences of not graduating high school. they can always go back and get their GED if they decide improper english is not worth the freedom of flipping burgers for a living. on a personal note, i am judged sometimes for using the english language properly in social settings. and sometimes it bugs me because i feel like people hold it against me for bothering. why is it my fault that i try? why should that make me feel bad? everyone has the opportunity to pick up a book and learn some new words or practice their speech. if you decided you had something better to do then dont judge me for not wasting my time. parents used to want something better for their kids, now they get insecure and offended if someone suggests that what they already have might not be good enough someday. i thought progress was something we all invested in for the sake of our children and their children? good grief.

a reply to: BuzzyWigs

REVERSE of a people person,Crowds drive me CRAZY now.
Civilians are hard to scan and the ones who give me crusties don't deserve my kind of reaction.
My painting are good too ,BUT I would have to :
A:Leave Colorado
B:I am medically disabled from Desert Storm,brain and lung stuff.
C: I am legally mathematically retarded,can't have a credit card.

No agent would handle me and I'm TOO messed up to sell myself.

On the subject:
Ebonics is a cultural resistance based on racism when it's deliberately pursued.
Its just poor people when they aren't educated to KNOW better or street language that is applicable ONLY where it came from.
I HAVE served with men who speak IDENTICALLY to that BOOMHAUR guy on the cartoon,THEY too did do themselves any favors graduating like that.

Can YOU imagine the FAA or better YET AN ARMY call for fire in it?

a reply to: cavtrooper7

yeah, ebonics is a race pride thing where they would rather be "illiterate on our terms than educated on yours. if it was good enough for pappy, it's good enough for his chillun, been talking this way for generations going back to the plantation where my great great grand daddy got shot in the leg and they used leeches to cure his blood infection" yada yada. Im not saying they cant do it, I just think they shouldnt be surprised when it turns out their most marketable skills rely on heavy machinery from the civil wa era and their speaking skills are just a couple decades younger at best.

a reply to: TzarChasm

THERES a systematic cultural oppression amongst backs too,MOSTLY in the anthill cities.
OUTSIDE their protected ENCLAVES they get arrested, beat or shot,in the end,because NO ONE hires them.
NOW they think ENTITLEMENT and the real world will harm them.