schools must allow for minority students to speak in ebonics

originally posted by: SBMcG
a reply to: dragonridr

I could care less if I'm called "racist". It's not "racist" to voice my considered opinion that Ebonics is not worthy of ANY special attention other than to be eliminated from the user's lexicon while they're young.

There is no redeeming value in Ebonics.

Well unfortunately its a reality of their upbringing. As such it needs to be taken into account when trying to educate certain students. They are going to need more help since its very hard to unlearn things your parents teach you. If you explain things to a child in a way they can understand they are more likely to retain the information. And no one said ebonics in any way is benefitia its simply a reality.

a reply to: crazyewok

Sounds like thy are stating that minorities have a lower IQ, doesn't it? Why is that racist if some people say it, but acceptable if others do, to use it as an excuse for special treatment?

Sorry, but if they can't speak properly, they don't get to pass through school!! Ebonics, as you stated, is NOT a language. I have watched a few videos in which the auto-CC feature couldn't pick out any words, and the people were "speaking", supposedly!

All these ruffled feathers over the opinion of ONE college undergrad!

Lol!!!!!

originally posted by: BuzzyWigs
a reply to: zosimov
*snip*

It's a strength to know more than one language, now more than ever. If I had my way, every kid would be taught Spanish alongside English from preK. Same with kids from ebonics homes or communities. They need to learn proper English.

That is what keeps civilization going. Sympathy and empathy are fine, but there is a place for accuracy and linguistic precision that must not be overlooked or dismissed.

You don't have to shame them to teach them business and academic English. But they need to learn it whether they use it at home or not.

Agree with everything there, save one small point. I would say, whenever possible, teach children some second language, but not necessarily Spanish. German, French, Russian, Chinese, etc. are all viable choices as well.

originally posted by: wheresthebody
a reply to: crazyewok

You are blaming your students for their situation.

Maybe you shouldn't be teaching in the environment that you're in, because you really do seem terrible at handling what comes with it, maybe you should aim to be a private tutor or something.

You are blaming a teacher for wanting to actually teach students, as though that's somehow wrong. If someone refuses to speak proper English, or is incapable, then they do NOT need to be passed through school. They cannot possibly be competent enough for a diploma, without basic language skills.

originally posted by: dragonridr

originally posted by: SBMcG
a reply to: dragonridr

I could care less if I'm called "racist". It's not "racist" to voice my considered opinion that Ebonics is not worthy of ANY special attention other than to be eliminated from the user's lexicon while they're young.

There is no redeeming value in Ebonics.

Well unfortunately its a reality of their upbringing. As such it needs to be taken into account when trying to educate certain students. They are going to need more help since its very hard to unlearn things your parents teach you. If you explain things to a child in a way they can understand they are more likely to retain the information. And no one said ebonics in any way is benefitia its simply a reality.

My parents taught me proper English and the enunciation thereof, and to embrace education as a way of improving myself.

originally posted by: Hecate666
The liberals are out today and doing what they do best, basically being so understanding that it is to the detriment of the people they claim to protect.

Why stop at ebonics? Why teach any language to children, if toddler babbling means being free of oppressive learning [it's people's right to never learn how to speak/s]?
Why not let kids or families make up their own language and accept these at school? Where is the difference to ebonics?
Why worry about a unifying language if you could have a book printed in 99 variants [it won't cost that much more/s].
Shop signs 20 foot high, because you have to fit all the languages on there as otherwise you'll be racist to leave one out...and so on.

Surely anyone who would like to live in a civilised society should agree that communication between all of those living within it is highly important. It means we can all understand each other, which makes life so much easier for everyone and brings us TOGETHER [see that lefties?].
When calling our takeaway there are two girls that answer. One who is fluent and very clear in english and the other one is kind of hit and miss with understanding what I order and it's always a surprise to see what's missing.
The second one gives me stress, the first one makes me happy to use their restaurant.

That right there shows that you could lose customers if you can't speak properly because I chose the one that gives me the easiest experience with the best outcome.

And those inane examples of comparing regional accents to ebonics is highly insulting. Because if you ask people with accents to write, it will still come out as normal English. They just pronounce words differently.
If you ask someone who can only speak ebonics to write something, the outcome is quite different. Most write how they hear things. Which will stop them from taking part in the greater society as nobody but their buddies will have a rough idea what they are on about. You certainly can't write a scientific paper in ebonic because it needs to be understood all around the world by other foreigners that can speak proper english.

So why are the left so adamant to stop people to be something better? Why do they pander to the lowest common denominator and drag everyone down, instead of insisting to raise the bar for the others?

Yes, it's because they are racist. They really think black people are unable to. Black kids are just pulled through school, they get leniency with their test results, they often pass just by default, because we can't have black people failing can we?

If lefties really wanted to help and if they weren't so racist, they would demand blacks to pull themselves together and work for it just like everyone else. No more 'special' help, because they are not 'special'. They are humans we have taught that just because of their skin colour they get special treatments throughout their lives and when the special treatments stop, all they are left with is their ebonics and the made up marks at school that have no substance.

Teach them, expect the same and if they don't deliver find out why and accept it. Then we can really help. These are life lessons that make for a better society.

I'd give applause for this if I could, but since I can't, !!!!! That, and repeating it, I can do! Well stated!!!

If you look at history, English itself is actually just German with heavy ebonics.

It was the dialect of German which was spoken by the Germanic tribe called the "Angles". Hence "Anglisch"

The reason we can't understand German anymore is because the "Anglisch" German speaking people on the British Isles were mostly illiterate, and the language just degenerated and degenerated over a few hundred years until it became entirely unintelligible to German speakers.

King of England Richard (from the Robin Hood tales, but also a real person) famously stated that he spoke "French to his wife, German to his horse, and English to his dog.) Such was the esteem held for the language in the middle ages.

originally posted by: LadyGreenEyes

originally posted by: BuzzyWigs
a reply to: zosimov
*snip*

It's a strength to know more than one language, now more than ever. If I had my way, every kid would be taught Spanish alongside English from preK. Same with kids from ebonics homes or communities. They need to learn proper English.

That is what keeps civilization going. Sympathy and empathy are fine, but there is a place for accuracy and linguistic precision that must not be overlooked or dismissed.

You don't have to shame them to teach them business and academic English. But they need to learn it whether they use it at home or not.

Agree with everything there, save one small point. I would say, whenever possible, teach children some second language, but not necessarily Spanish. German, French, Russian, Chinese, etc. are all viable choices as well.

Yeah. I agree, it's better to diversify if possible. Spanish is basically useless as a second language because there are so many bilingual spanish/english speaking people in the USA already that it's never hard to find a translator. Most immigrants you meet nowadays have decent skill at English. (I say this because I speak both, and rarely ever get the chance to use Spanish.)

a reply to: bloodymarvelous

End of the day exam papers are marked in English and jobs in the scientific field require English.

When those two factors change I will change the language i teach in.

originally posted by: dragonridr

originally posted by: SBMcG
a reply to: dragonridr

I could care less if I'm called "racist". It's not "racist" to voice my considered opinion that Ebonics is not worthy of ANY special attention other than to be eliminated from the user's lexicon while they're young.

There is no redeeming value in Ebonics.

Well unfortunately its a reality of their upbringing. As such it needs to be taken into account when trying to educate certain students. They are going to need more help since its very hard to unlearn things your parents teach you. If you explain things to a child in a way they can understand they are more likely to retain the information. And no one said ebonics in any way is benefitia its simply a reality.

But thats where support comes in.

As stated I have a number of students that have English as a second language.

In my classes I have chinese, neplolese, portugese, polish and romanian.

I cant have them submitting work in there native languages as for a start I would be unable to mark it!

But I do give help via extra time and allowing them to make a draft piece of work in there native language so they can get the ideas down, then they convert that draft into a English copy.

Also I would never shame them. Corrections are noted in there work or if I need to I speak to them privately and positively.

By best students are polish and nepolese.

Kinda funny how slave owners used to forbid slaves to learn how to read and write. Now liberals want to prevent black people from learning how to coherently read and write.

originally posted by: RedDragon
Kinda funny how slave owners used to forbid slaves to learn how to read and write. Now liberals want to prevent black people from learning how to coherently read and write.

Well democrats where the ones that supported slavery in the civil war......

Dp

Tp

originally posted by: LadyGreenEyes
a reply to: crazyewok

Sounds like thy are stating that minorities have a lower IQ, doesn't it? Why is that racist if some people say it, but acceptable if others do, to use it as an excuse for special treatment?

Sorry, but if they can't speak properly, they don't get to pass through school!! Ebonics, as you stated, is NOT a language. I have watched a few videos in which the auto-CC feature couldn't pick out any words, and the people were "speaking", supposedly!

Make fun of the way they talk, like they do rednecks? 'Murica!

Or would that be racist?

That be some low brow BS tho to be speaking like that.

originally posted by: Spider879
a reply to: crazyewok

As such its a example of the black community choosing to isolate themselves which then shoots them in the foot. If they are going to isolate themselves culturally and linguistically there will be negative consequences, that is just the way of life.

I am thinking of giving you a pass because you are from England and may not know much about America's social history, segregated schools ,churches, neighborhoods, wasn't black folks choice, they were forced into it, steps taken to desegregate schools were met with massive resistance as many whites simply pulled their kids from schools and go elsewhere.

As far as hell freezing over?? look here, your ex Roman overlords would have laugh themselves silly if anyone had suggested that so-called Barbarian from the British Isles whose language and power would one day dominate the world, but here we are.

If you want to talk about the "desegregation of schools", well, fine. I was there, and remember how that went! We ere moved from a school in our own mixed neighborhood to another one, much farther away, in a very black neighborhood. Guess what? The black students did not want us there!! They were the ones showing resentment and hostility. The handful of white students were constant targets for harassment and bullying. So, don't try using that era as an excuse for people decades later refusing to learn how to speak properly!! Back then, for the record, other than a particular accept common to black Southerners at the time, there was none of this "ebonics" nonsense, either!! Far closer, historically, to the time when African languages might have been in use, and no one was using such. So, we are supposed to believe that's the case now??

Not buying it.

originally posted by: dreamlotus1111
a reply to: RedDragon

managing risk how? by refusing to interact with entire groups of people because you're a scared little ____?

that only makes the problem worse im afraid. learn to live with people different then you. its a big scary world out there i know but in order to make things work you have to put in some effort too and hire those that might sound a little different or have an ethnic sounding name on a job application because they are willing to work for your company and want to do something right.

i promise we are all human.

How about this? How about, instead, the people refusing to speak properly can put forth their own effort, if they truly want to work for a company, and communicate in a fashion that shows they have some intelligence? If they "want to do something right", they can speak properly, and not demand special treatment. Maybe they are afraid if they did, they'd fail??

originally posted by: crazyewok

originally posted by: RedDragon
Kinda funny how slave owners used to forbid slaves to learn how to read and write. Now liberals want to prevent black people from learning how to coherently read and write.

Well democrats where the ones that supported slavery in the civil war......

Oh Ffsakes not this sht again..know your history in context, the Republicans of that day were the Liberals,!! then during the 60ts civil rights era, there were bi-directional departures, as parties switched agendas and policies .

Why Did the Democratic and Republican Parties Switch Platforms?
www.livescience.com...

And

GOP Apologizes for Southern Strategy[
inside.sfuhs.org...
/headline]

edit on 27-4-2017 by Spider879 because: (no reason given)

originally posted by: crazyewok

I am sorry but NO!

Ebonics is NOT a language! Its just a bunch of jumbled nonsense because certain people are to stupid and lazy to speak correct English.

Correction: "too stupid and lazy"

Also is not the premises itself racist in itself? Are the left saying blacks are not capable of speaking correctly?

No, not as directly as saying they are "to stupid and lazy"

originally posted by: bloodymarvelous

originally posted by: LadyGreenEyes

originally posted by: BuzzyWigs
a reply to: zosimov
*snip*

It's a strength to know more than one language, now more than ever. If I had my way, every kid would be taught Spanish alongside English from preK. Same with kids from ebonics homes or communities. They need to learn proper English.

That is what keeps civilization going. Sympathy and empathy are fine, but there is a place for accuracy and linguistic precision that must not be overlooked or dismissed.

You don't have to shame them to teach them business and academic English. But they need to learn it whether they use it at home or not.

Agree with everything there, save one small point. I would say, whenever possible, teach children some second language, but not necessarily Spanish. German, French, Russian, Chinese, etc. are all viable choices as well.

Yeah. I agree, it's better to diversify if possible. Spanish is basically useless as a second language because there are so many bilingual spanish/english speaking people in the USA already that it's never hard to find a translator. Most immigrants you meet nowadays have decent skill at English. (I say this because I speak both, and rarely ever get the chance to use Spanish.)

One of mine wants to learn French, and another has expressed interest in Chinese. The Spanish language issue is somewhat related to the topic of this thread, too. What's being demanded for those who use ebonics is already given to Spanish speakers. We don't see labels, usually, in German, or French, or Japanese, etc, of press some number for those languages, but we almost cannot avoid Spanish labels, even in places where virtually no one speaks it. I can't remember the last time I heard Spanish spoken, out in public. Yet many products for sale still have labels half in Spanish. Rant over, personally, I'd like to learn more German. I've taken some classes, but, again, no one nearby speaks it, so it's hard to remember it all!