Your Social Issue Challenge

Imagine somebody creates an industry where they can receive money from strangers they do not know (STDNK) by allowing these STDNK to watch them on webcam using the STDNK's credit cards to purchase gifts and luxuries for themselves, maxing out the credit cards and bank accounts of those peole, and then communicating about how much satisfaction the person derived from doing so, which seems to intrigue the STDNK to a point where they want this to happen again and again in the future. And are willing to pay more and more to the extent their demands are met.

Word catches on and anyone with similar desires can call this person and experience the same pleasurable experiences. The industry becomes so big that the person accumulates a LOT of free gifts and a LOT of money from people they have never met or known and over time, past clients or those close to the person in question, reveal that this is happening to the general public. The person begins to fear for their safety and the safety of those close to this person, so eventually decides to "come out" and be open and honest about what they are doing and helping to meet the demand to do so.

Here's the challenge (which must be done if you are curious about my own motives and views referred to later on in this thread)

Read the above introduction AND then answer the 8 questions asked next before clicking on the article I have linked at the end of this opening thread. If you can do so, please contribute and comment as much as you prefer. If not, please do not reply.

At this point, without reading any further, what are your assumptions about the person who created this industry?

1) Do you think the person is right or wrong for doing what they are doing?
2) Are their acts morally justifiable in any way, even if it is to make a living?
3) Is the fact that their clients are stupid or willingly stupid because they can be the persons fault for continuing to do so?
4) Is the person fairly or unfairly promoting any stereotypes about the group they might belong to?
5) Should we blame the number of rich stupid or willingly stupid people for allowing this person to continue making so much money?
6) Are people like this person who "cannot" find another way to make a living obligated to commit to this industry now that there is an established market for doing so?
7) If I were to reveal the gender of the person and the gender of the person's clients, would any of your answers to the above questions change in any way or form AT THIS STAGE?
8) If I were to reveal the gender of the person and the gender of the person's clients, do you think their actions as individuals should be associated with their gender to properly assess whether the situation is overall right or wrong, AT THIS STAGE?

Edit: Added an extra question that is relevant.

ALSO: I guarantee I will reveal my motivation for creating this thread if asked to do so by you personally. I just cannot do it in this opening post because it WILL jeopardise what I am trying to discover.

Only proceed if you have done all the above.

Only proceed if you have done all the above.

Only proceed if you have done all the above.

The Story I Am Referencing

a reply to: Dark Ghost

1) They're neither right, nor wrong.
2) Morality is subjective.
3) Didn't understand this question. Seems to be worded funny to me.
4) No.
5) No.
6) No.
7) No.

I will now read the article.

Edit: the article didn't change my mind.

a reply to: Dark Ghost

I can't see many guys going for this. She is not even very pretty. Probably more hype and her not telling the truth so people believe her hype. May be if they were particularly attractive, but not this.

It's actually none of my business. I would not want to know people like her or her clients. I keep people like that far away in a pit of my contempt. I would never pay for sex. Actually, even if it was free I would only bother if I wanted a relationship. It's not morality, it is PREFERENCE.

People gamble their money away on algorithms that are programmed to take their money. If they will do that I guess any kind of financial exploitation is possible. People are really dumbing down now.

I advise people to read books and challenge their intellect continually. It is very easy to be hypnotized by all these snakes that are crawling around these days on the make. Lazy minds are ripe for manipulating and exploiting.

Yuck, whatever gets you through the night I guess?

originally posted by: Hazardous1408
1) They're neither right, nor wrong.
2) Morality is subjective.
3) Didn't understand this question. Seems to be worded funny to me.
4) No.
5) No.
6) No.
7) No.

I will now read the article.

In regards to number 3), I am referring to people who happen to be rich but still take part in behaviour that is considered objectively stupid because it is clearly self-harmful to most people in every way (but not financially harmful to the rich people in this case). Keeping that in mind, should we be blaming the "victim" or the "perpetrator?" Who is the victim and who is the perpetrator?

a reply to: Hazardous1408

Interesting.

What are your views in regard to the prostitution and pornographic industries? Do you think those industries are comparable to the industry referenced in the opening post? I do hope I can get an honest answer from you.

a reply to: Dark Ghost

Personally I don't see a victim.

If it's between two consenting adults...
She is more than welcome to profit and they're more than welcome to spend their hard earned.


I'd have more of a problem if it was some religious leader swindling pensioners out of their money.

I suppose there is a fine line in selling people dreams.

a reply to: Dark Ghost

Personally I don't mind prostitution and porn.
I don't indulge...
But I'm pretty Libertarian and believe if people want to sell their bodies, they should be allowed to.

a reply to: Hazardous1408

Good to hear. We are on the same page. Although I have indulged in porn in the past, but am not doing so at present.

Good to see you are consistent in your approach to this topic.

a reply to: Dark Ghost

1) Do you think the person is right or wrong for doing what they are doing? It's a subjective question and I do not have enough information to really be informed. At face value, it doesn't seem like a bad industry... basically twitch. You never clearly stated weather or not this was an optional thing or theft.

2) Are their acts morally justifiable in any way, even if it is to make a living?

Which acts? the act of purchasing this commodity, providing or being an employee of it?

3) Is the fact that their clients are stupid or willingly stupid because they can be the persons fault for continuing to do so?

Subjective. Some may be of much lower intelligence and I'd recon that people with lower intelligence would migrate to this. weather they are being abused is subjective and depends on each individual

4) Is the person fairly or unfairly promoting any stereotypes about the group they might belong to? Possibly, depends on execution.

5) Should we blame the number of rich stupid or willingly stupid people for allowing this person to continue making so much money?
Again you'd have to look at each individual involved. A lot of the time... when someone is a victim of manipulation the person committing the act is either very willing or unwilling. Individuals.

6) Are people like this person who "cannot" find another way to make a living obligated to commit to this industry now that there is an established market for doing so?

Maybe. Criminality is always a choice. In this world as it is, the options exist outside of this. If they didn't, I don't want to be living in that world.

7) If I were to reveal the gender of the person and the gender of the person's clients, would any of your answers to the above questions change in any way or form AT THIS STAGE? No. I think many people would be abusing this kind of program both men and women. I think there MAY be huge differences and I recognize that people will purposely use this to abuse the opposite sex.

8) If I were to reveal the gender of the person and the gender of the person's clients, do you think their actions as individuals should be associated with their gender to properly assess whether the situation is overall right or wrong, AT THIS STAGE?

No. This one is a bit hard for me to explain. Abuse is abuse. Some people are just abusive people and grab onto anything they can to further abuse.

i'll continue reading the thread now.


edit: gotta say, I had a hard time with some of the questions. I didn't fully understand each question for one. I also couldn't pick up on a motive at all which is nice.

Wow!

The potential milestones of the insanity of our species are limitless.

a reply to: Antipathy17

Most of your answers appear, in my eyes, to be more concerned with trying to clarify what is meant by the questions themselves, rather than trying to answer them honestly and with as little bias as possible. I do not expect them ALL to be clear in their intent, but they must remain broad in scope otherwise my motives for making them that way will be requested. Which is fine, but I cannot express the motive in the opening post until the reader has demonstrated they have successfully completed the challenge. When you are done, I am more than happy to tell you my exact motives for making the thread. I have nothing to hide.

a reply to: Dark Ghost

None of my business. People have been exploiting stupid people since they could, the twist here is they are signing up for it.

a reply to: Dark Ghost

I just think its a case by case basis. Mostly no objection.

a reply to: Dark Ghost

1) Do you think the person is right or wrong for doing what they are doing?

I would say that this is really dodgy. Sure, in some cases, I can see the client being a rich person for whom the thrill of having so much money has worn off, so they're reliving it vicariously. But what about people who are ruining themselves and this person is aiding and abetting that? Could I live with that knowledge? I don't think I could no matter how much I enjoy what I am doing -- money for nothing and chicks for free.

2) Are their acts morally justifiable in any way, even if it is to make a living?

I suppose you could say they are ignorant of where the means comes from and they aren't stealing, so there is that. But they are taking advantage no matter how you shake it down. And you have to ask yourself how far is too far.

3) Is the fact that their clients are stupid or willingly stupid because they can be the persons fault for continuing to do so?

Are all the clients stupid though? Or do they just have weird fetishes or the need to experience the thrill of wealth vicariously? Oh, I am very sure that some of them very much are stupid and do have very serious problems, but I'm guessing that some of them have darker/stranger needs than that.

4) Is the person fairly or unfairly promoting any stereotypes about the group they might belong to?

I am not sure what group you are thinking they might belong to unless you are thinking of prostitutes who are paid to provide pleasure.

5) Should we blame the number of rich stupid or willingly stupid people for allowing this person to continue making so much money?

I'm not sure anyone can blame anyone for this. At most, it's a lack of what's decent that allows this person to continue to take advantage of a situation that sets him or her up in such a way.

6) Are people like this person who "cannot" find another way to make a living obligated to commit to this industry now that there is an established market for doing so?

I would think they're part of the market regardless. Word gets around, and people will discover who does what and who charges what. That's how a market forms.

7) If I were to reveal the gender of the person and the gender of the person's clients, would any of your answers to the above questions change in any way or form AT THIS STAGE?

You think any gender has a monopoly on weird fetishes?

8) If I were to reveal the gender of the person and the gender of the person's clients, do you think their actions as individuals should be associated with their gender to properly assess whether the situation is overall right or wrong, AT THIS STAGE?

See above.

After reading the article, I see I was pretty close in my estimate of weird fetishes.

And here I was thinking you were talking about the welfare system in America.

a reply to: Antipathy17

Have you completed the challenge in full? If so, I am happy to ask you a further question which will allude to my motives for making the thread.

While I don't understand the reason or the need to go so deep in analysis for such a trivial matter I will try to answer honestly and see if it helps you discover whatever you want to discover. I must admit that I have a pretty good idea what this is about so maybe that is influencing my answers.

1) Do you think the person is right or wrong for doing what they are doing?

Neither. As long as there is a need there will always be people to provide something to fulfill that need. And as long as nobody is hurt in the process right or wrong is irrelevant.

2) Are their acts morally justifiable in any way, even if it is to make a living?

Not necessarily, but again they don't hurt anybody either, so in my book is a matter of personal choices. Is an actor playing in a movie for the viewers pleasure more morally justifiable? Because is less personal or maybe because is more socially accepted? Is paying to view a curse or a workshop online more morally justifiable?
Morals are relative. People will sell whatever they have and it is in demand. And other people will buy if they need it, is as simple as that.

3) Is the fact that their clients are stupid or willingly stupid because they can be the persons fault for continuing to do so?

No. Is the stupidity of the clients who must be there first in order for someone to find a way to exploit it.

4) Is the person fairly or unfairly promoting any stereotypes about the group they might belong to?

They may promote some stereotypes but as a work tool not as a main occupation. Again fair or not fair, who knows? Maybe is exactly that stereotype that their clients are looking for.

5) Should we blame the number of rich stupid or willingly stupid people for allowing this person to continue making so much money?

No. Is a personal choice and a trait of character.

6) Are people like this person who "cannot" find another way to make a living obligated to commit to this industry now that there is an established market for doing so?

Don't think so. They may justify it like this for themselves tho, but they are in no way obligated.

7) If I were to reveal the gender of the person and the gender of the person's clients, would any of your answers to the above questions change in any way or form AT THIS STAGE?

No.

8) If I were to reveal the gender of the person and the gender of the person's clients, do you think their actions as individuals should be associated with their gender to properly assess whether the situation is overall right or wrong, AT THIS STAGE?

No. People with weird needs are everywhere and in every social group. Most cannot afford to or will not openly admit it, but they are there, every gender, age or occupation.

So... now the big question?

a reply to: WhiteHat

I appreciate your in-depth answers and explanations, and while it's good for me personally to gain more information about how you think (but which was not related to the purpose of the thread), for anyone else participating it would be much easier if you were short and concise BEFORE seeing the article and then AFTER deciding if you want to be as elaborate and why. I should have made it clearer in the OP.

Have you finished reading the article and THEN revisited and answered the questions again? If you can confirm (you don't need to show more your follow up answers in full, but I'll need them to be concisely answered after that), I am happy to ask you follow up questions and reveal my motive for making the thread.

originally posted by: IgnoranceIsntBlisss
Wow!

The potential milestones of the insanity of our species are limitless.

Gee man, do I really deserve to be associated with that legacy just because I proposed a voluntary 1 page challenge on an online forum? (/scarc)

Nobody? Nobody found that even a bit humorous...? OK

In regard to the article linked: It's interesting how nobody gets hurt, so it's ok with me becomes the number one priority when it's presented in a gender neutral way, but refer to an industry where the genders are known beforehand and all of a sudden it becomes "the acceptance of immoral behaviour which can negatively influence others who hear about it" for most people (not when asked is it ok for others to do it, but would it be ok for YOUR son or daughter to be doing it). THEN it's a problem.

originally posted by: Dark Ghost
Imagine somebody creates an industry where they can receive money from strangers they do not know (STDNK) by allowing these STDNK to watch them on webcam using the STDNK's credit cards to purchase gifts and luxuries for themselves, maxing out the credit cards and bank accounts of those peole, and then communicating about how much satisfaction the person derived from doing so, which seems to intrigue the STDNK to a point where they want this to happen again and again in the future. And are willing to pay more and more to the extent their demands are met.

Word catches on and anyone with similar desires can call this person and experience the same pleasurable experiences. The industry becomes so big that the person accumulates a LOT of free gifts and a LOT of money from people they have never met or known and over time, past clients or those close to the person in question, reveal that this is happening to the general public. The person begins to fear for their safety and the safety of those close to this person, so eventually decides to "come out" and be open and honest about what they are doing and helping to meet the demand to do so.

Here's the challenge (which must be done if you are curious about my own motives and views referred to later on in this thread)

Read the above introduction AND then answer the 8 questions asked next before clicking on the article I have linked at the end of this opening thread. If you can do so, please contribute and comment as much as you prefer. If not, please do not reply.

At this point, without reading any further, what are your assumptions about the person who created this industry?

1) Do you think the person is right or wrong for doing what they are doing?

It's not really a right or wrong kind of scenario

2) Are their acts morally justifiable in any way, even if it is to make a living?

Why would it be morally unjust? Everyone is consenting (and is capable of making that decision) to the arrangement presumably

3) Is the fact that their clients are stupid or willingly stupid because they can be the persons fault for continuing to do so?

If the client's are unhappy with the arrangement but do nothing to stop it, then yes it is their fault. If everyone is happy there is no reason to assign fault

4) Is the person fairly or unfairly promoting any stereotypes about the group they might belong to?

Not enough information to impose that kind of judgement

5) Should we blame the number of rich stupid or willingly stupid people for allowing this person to continue making so much money?

Why would you blame anyone for anything if there is no harm being done to anyone?

6) Are people like this person who "cannot" find another way to make a living obligated to commit to this industry now that there is an established market for doing so?

No one is ever obligated to commit to an industry just because there is a market for it.

7) If I were to reveal the gender of the person and the gender of the person's clients, would any of your answers to the above questions change in any way or form AT THIS STAGE?

don't know why it would

8) If I were to reveal the gender of the person and the gender of the person's clients, do you think their actions as individuals should be associated with their gender to properly assess whether the situation is overall right or wrong, AT THIS STAGE?

Why would that have anything to do with anything since it is a morally benign question to begin with?

Edit: Added an extra question that is relevant.

ALSO: I guarantee I will reveal my motivation for creating this thread if asked to do so by you personally. I just cannot do it in this opening post because it WILL jeopardise what I am trying to discover.

Only proceed if you have done all the above.

Only proceed if you have done all the above.

Only proceed if you have done all the above.

The Story I Am Referencing