The right to offend and the right to be offended

a reply to: ketsuko

What I see in your posts here is a political argument.

The points I'm trying to make aren't specifically political. They're highlighting the importance of personal responsibility and how it should inform our 'freedom of speech.' Just because people *feel* entitled to abuse that terminally ill kid, doesn't mean they are actually 'entitled' to. Does that make sense?

When I was a schoolkid, a boy had leukaemia and was bullied about hair loss and wearing glasses. He was buried in his Liverpool FC kit and it's always stayed with me.

That wasn't a political Left/Right thing; it was a 'man's inhumanity to man' thing. That's where my mind is here. It;s also why I was totally clear about resisting the imposition of values from FB and Google. It's not a simple black/white discussion no matter how certain some people think it is.

a reply to: thesaneone

Especially when troubled teenagers commit suicide because of the bullying online.

originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: Kandinsky

Not only who gets to define the limitations as has been pointed out, but how do you weigh a person's intent?

'Individual tolerance' level for offensiveness is another factor that is so subjective and diverse that it defies generalized, universal, definition.

EDIT:
Some people can't take a joke...while some people have a high tolerance for insult.
Imagine how many times Don Rickles was punched in the nose (before he died).

a reply to: Deaf Alien

Exactly. If the target is intended to 'grow some balls' or a 'thicker skin,' why isn't it on the bullies to change too?

People's lives can be torpedoed by verbal cruelty. If they cannot defend themselves, who will?

a reply to: IAMTAT

'Individual tolerance' level for offensiveness is another factor that is so subjective and diverse that it defies generalized, universal, definition.

Indeed.

I've heard it called "the empathy gene"...something that sociopaths lack....if one does not have an understanding of the personal suffering of others, then they are unable to understand how their words would harm them

a reply to: Deaf Alien

Better check your health insurance first, buddy.

a reply to: PRSpinster

I see that some people have my post confused and missing my point.

originally posted by: olaru12

originally posted by: seeker1963

originally posted by: Hazardous1408

originally posted by: seeker1963

originally posted by: Deaf Alien
a reply to: seeker1963

What made you think I was an Antifa supporter?

Just a generalization. The fact you seem so week that it is okay to punch someone because their words might offend you?

If someone said something untoward about your closest family member would you consider yourself weak if you kicked their ass???

Some would call that valour.

I would consider myself weak if I fell into their trap!

Sorry, but I am an old man, and those days of testosterone, alcohol fueled days of aggression have taken a back seat to WISDOM and looking back at the foolishness of those days of my youth?

Hopefully someday you will get there!

You can insult me all you want....

I don't care if you are an old man! You insult my wife in any manner; it's just something I will not tolerate. Words have consequences that you might not like.

You play so tough on the internet, where your insults have no consequences.

I know i'm not the one you meant but i have to respond. You know i always find it odd when people say that to me or somebody else. I would never imply that you or anyone else is just playing a role on here. I for one own everything i say or do. Sure i'm more polite in real life but that's just common sense and has nothing to do with my character. Some of my views are extreme i don't deny that but i'm also the guy who runs into a burning building and rescues you and your pet. I learned to focus my hate and anger on certain people but that doesn't mean i want to nuke the planet because humanity sucks. To be fair i stated that in one thread but i wasn't serious of course.

I'm always 100% honest on ATS and everything i shared is the truth. I see no benefit or receive some kind of satisfaction if i just told a lie after lie. Nobody knows me so there is no reason to be dishonest in my case. Sure some of my experiences are outlandish or sound insane to some but i would never judge others. If you deem me crazy so be it because i don't really care. My character stays the same no matter where i am. I don't feel the need to sever my online persona from my real life persona. Maybe it's just personal experience but i witnessed some people who acted tough from far away but face to face their whole attitude changed in an instant and they were reduced to little kittens. I met hardcore Nazis but to my surprise they were just normal people who saw the world differently. If you would meet me on the streets you would never guess that i would be able to disarm or to kill you if need be. Mind you i'm a pacifist and despise violence but if i witness something i deem unjust or goes against my own code i will end you. That's why i live by the saying that you should never judge a book by its cover.

originally posted by: Deaf Alien
a reply to: thesaneone

Especially when troubled teenagers commit suicide because of the bullying online.

Do you blame that on bullying or the social engineering in our educational system where everyone is special and gets a trophy? How about the lack of parenting by parents who rely on the educational system to parent their children?

Sorry, but as horrible as it is that children commit suicide, you and everyone else who blame it on bullying are being dishonest to the reason why it has become what is has become.

It isn't bullying, it is the social conditioning by the shrinks and our educational system along with the lack of parents who know how to be a parents!

a reply to: seeker1963

Some teenagers are mentally ill so that is not the fault of their parents or society. And the bullies know the consequence.

originally posted by: jimmyx
I've heard it called "the empathy gene"...something that sociopaths lack....if one does not have an understanding of the personal suffering of others, then they are unable to understand how their words would harm them

That's a good point, jimmyx.

It might very well be, that we, as a society (or a species) are becoming more sociopathic in nature...or, perhaps, that our understanding of the nature of empathy has become deformed.

originally posted by: jimmyx
I've heard it called "the empathy gene"...something that sociopaths lack....if one does not have an understanding of the personal suffering of others, then they are unable to understand how their words would harm them

I think they need to invent a new category because i probably fit into both of them. I'm very loving and kind but i can also be very violent and i'm incapable of feeling remorse if i would be forced to kill an evil person for example. I'm not looking forward to that day but i sure wouldn't run into the other direction like 99% of other peoples. I never understood the need to label people in the first place. Is it because people want to feel special or to belong to certain groups?

I don't mind folk getting offended, it's part of life.

It's a valid response to some things...but some of the things that people claim offense to are absurd.

I ain't gonna lie - recently I authored a few threads that were specifically designed to provoke reaction. Some of them got closed and branded 'troll' threads, which is a fair assessment.

The real question is can casuing offense...or 'trolling' be useful in a way that could be potentially beneficial? I believe so, for example - how does one actively prove tht people are not only quick to be offended, but actually happy to be offended...two states that sort of contradict one another, without deliberately trying to offend or illicit a reaction in order to gather data?

I see people who seem quite happy to be offended, an oxymoronical state of mind. Take offense, by all means, if it's legit then you're only standing up for what you believe in.

It's the folk that're happy to be offended that piss me off. You see them at modern protests - SJW types, they're protestig but with big grins on their faces because for them, protesting is fun.

originally posted by: Perfectenemy

originally posted by: jimmyx
I've heard it called "the empathy gene"...something that sociopaths lack....if one does not have an understanding of the personal suffering of others, then they are unable to understand how their words would harm them

I never understood the need to label people in the first place. Is it because people want to feel special or to belong to certain groups?

Labeling ourselves allows us to tap into a predetermined allocation of things such as outrage, offended-ness and victimization.

Mighty handy...when you are too lazy to think or feel for yourself.

I'd just like to add and point out - it's not just an attribute of SJW's and the left.

The other side are the same, they are as easy to trigger and 'offend' as their opponents. I've proved this more than once but the evidence got deleted due to its inevitable 'trolliness'

No pics..it definitely happens. One example, I posted a speech by the great Tony Benn then claimed Mr Benn was a bigoted, silly old man and part of the patriarchy...didn't go down well.

Even when you're clearly being over the top and sarky in your outlandish claims, it still triggers people. I see folks like Gavin McInness and often think he's a charicature of macho, right-wingedness. I believe his schtick is partly an act or exaggeration and yet people still fall for it.

On the flip side we see liberal virtue signallers like Lily Allen sent the right into a major frenzy with a single, well worded tweet. Do I think she sincerely believes the crqp she spouts? Hell no, I don't even think she understands half of it herself.

Don't stop people losing their junk though, does it?

It's a funny old world...

a reply to: HeathenJessie

Well of course. Look how easily Christians get offended when you say the words "Happy Holidays" Then it get's all blown out of proportion into a "War on Christmas". LOL Everyone get's offended. I still don't understand the whole SJW thing and how that relates to being offended. Being offended is an everyone thing. All sides, religions, races, ethnicities etc get offended.

originally posted by: Kandinsky

Exactly. If the target is intended to 'grow some balls' or a 'thicker skin,' why isn't it on the bullies to change too?

Leaving aside physical violence which is something else altogether.

Bullies cannot survive if they don't have a victim (stick and stones

and all that)


As bullying usually starts in the schools, parents need to help their

own children realise that what bullies say and name calling doesn't

define who they are ....


Not allowing themselves to become victims will eventually deter the

bully (no reaction >no victim >no satisfaction?) and in the process ....

thicker skin and self esteem is developed!

a reply to: amazing

I think it's because, in terms of taking offense, they're pretty much professionals whereas the average punter is an amateur at taking offense.

SJW's are perpetually offended...they seem quite happy about it, though,

Which confuses me and intrigues me at the same time. When I'm offended, I tend to be a bit less happy looking. I don't often attend protests, but if I did I'd be unmasked for one, and not smiling for two.

And if I can manage to get through the entire protest without propping up major retailers like starbucks and without destroying and littering whatever poor city we're protesting in it's definitely a bonus.

originally posted by: HeathenJessie


I see people who seem quite happy to be offended, an oxymoronical state of mind. Take offense, by all means, if it's legit then you're only standing up for what you believe in.

It's the folk that're happy to be offended that piss me off. You see them at modern protests - SJW types, they're protestig but with big grins on their faces because for them, protesting is fun.

The newest 'profession' will soon be needing a degree for it

a reply to: eletheia

The University of the Professional Perpetually Offended.