The right to offend and the right to be offended

originally posted by: Hazardous1408

originally posted by: seeker1963

originally posted by: Deaf Alien
a reply to: seeker1963

What made you think I was an Antifa supporter?

Just a generalization. The fact you seem so week that it is okay to punch someone because their words might offend you?

If someone said something untoward about your closest family member would you consider yourself weak if you kicked their ass???

Some would call that valour.

I would consider myself weak if I fell into their trap!

Sorry, but I am an old man, and those days of testosterone, alcohol fueled days of aggression have taken a back seat to WISDOM and looking back at the foolishness of those days of my youth?

Hopefully someday you will get there!

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: DBCowboy

Civility and decorum are some of the biggest contributors to a functioning society. When you take the greedy route and proclaim that JUST because you have the right to say something then you should it causes a breakdown in society. Sure you have the right to say whatever dickish things come to your mind, but that doesn't mean you should.

And just because there are consequences for your words doesn't mean that your freedom of speech is infringed. The 1st Amendment only applies to government restricting speech. That's it.

You just offended me. I am outraged!

How dare you say what you just did?! Just because you had the right to doesn't mean that you should do it. And since you aren't the government, I demand you be banned for hurting my feelings with your prolonged and angry, hateful diatribe. Clearly, you are a hater and hateful person.

Seeing as you mention the other thread.. There is a difference with having an opinion and causing offence because of your belief.. bIt it is a different thing when you start a thread with the sole intention of causing offence and encouraging bigotry and racism from other people..

originally posted by: Hazardous1408

If someone said something untoward about your closest family member would you consider yourself weak if you kicked their ass???

You have the right of reply? and therefor to offend .... if you wish.

Ironically, Don Rickles just died.

Think about it.

Man the ATS forums are going places today!

Basically grow up and grow some thick skin like the most of us regular adults. Got it.

S+F OP. You done good today. You done good.

a reply to: ketsuko

Yea. It doesn't work like that. Though I see what you are trying to do.

a reply to: Krazysh0t

Offensive is very subjective, so in theory she has the right to be offended, which is her problem, because your intentions were not to be offensive.

originally posted by: Hazardous1408

originally posted by: seeker1963

originally posted by: Deaf Alien
a reply to: seeker1963

What made you think I was an Antifa supporter?

Just a generalization. The fact you seem so week that it is okay to punch someone because their words might offend you?

If someone said something untoward about your closest family member would you consider yourself weak if you kicked their ass???

Some would call that valour.

Physical action would only take place if physical action was presented. Say what you want all day, talk will always be cheap.

originally posted by: seeker1963

originally posted by: Hazardous1408

originally posted by: seeker1963

originally posted by: Deaf Alien
a reply to: seeker1963

What made you think I was an Antifa supporter?

Just a generalization. The fact you seem so week that it is okay to punch someone because their words might offend you?

If someone said something untoward about your closest family member would you consider yourself weak if you kicked their ass???

Some would call that valour.

I would consider myself weak if I fell into their trap!

Sorry, but I am an old man, and those days of testosterone, alcohol fueled days of aggression have taken a back seat to WISDOM and looking back at the foolishness of those days of my youth?

Hopefully someday you will get there!

wisdom??...you insult anyone and anything left of center, in fact, in many threads, you encourage back-biting, the "we v they", name-calling, and insults.

a reply to: DBCowboy

We've always had speech that is considered socially unacceptable. In terms of the law, we actually have more First Amendment protections now than at any point in our history.

There are certainly "political correctness" zealots in the world who derive perverse satisifaction from nitpicking other people. There are also people who feign offense as a tool to shutdown speech they don't like.

On the flip side, there are those who will say things with no intent except to offend others and then cry foul when it works and people call them out for it, when they get canned from their jobs for it, banned from Twitter for it, have their threads closed for it, etc.

What I can't help but notice is how it seems more often than not, that when people start waxing dramatic about freedom of speech and offending people, it's in relation to somebody dealing with the blowback of saying something offensive about a whole swath of people.

Nobody makes a fuss when a guy calls his co-worker a "fat stupid ugly #$@-!$#%ing slut" and finds himself unemployed. Nobdoy laments the supposed creep of socially unacceptable speech when some idiot on Twitter says something off-color about the President's minor child and gets lambasted for it. We can all look at these things and agree that while this sort of speech should never be a crime, it's not what most people consider socially acceptable.

Yet somehow, when it comes to saying offensive things about a group, particularly one that is the object of identity politics rhetoric, some people pretend that there's a huge unnavigable gray area and it's all, "but but MUH UH-PINIONS! MUH UH-PINIONS!"

originally posted by: jimmyx

originally posted by: seeker1963

originally posted by: Hazardous1408

originally posted by: seeker1963

originally posted by: Deaf Alien
a reply to: seeker1963

What made you think I was an Antifa supporter?

Just a generalization. The fact you seem so week that it is okay to punch someone because their words might offend you?

If someone said something untoward about your closest family member would you consider yourself weak if you kicked their ass???

Some would call that valour.

I would consider myself weak if I fell into their trap!

Sorry, but I am an old man, and those days of testosterone, alcohol fueled days of aggression have taken a back seat to WISDOM and looking back at the foolishness of those days of my youth?

Hopefully someday you will get there!

wisdom??...you insult anyone and anything left of center, in fact, in many threads, you encourage back-biting, the "we v they", name-calling, and insults.

He's clearly talking about physical retaliation, you are somewhere else completely, like you usually are. (My intentions are not to be offensive with this)

a reply to: DBCowboy

Bull's eye. I couldn't agree more. With a few notable blips, the trend in this country has been to allow greater and greater free speech. That was until the politically correct movement of the mid 80's. Now it seems the pendulum is swinging the other way.

First, to be clear, the right to offend is not open to everyone all of the time. It just can not be limited by the government. That is what the right to free speech means, the Bill of Rights are protecting our rights from being overrun by the government. Depending on where we work, study, practice our religion, etc., our rights can be limited. For example, a male superior continuously calling his female subordinate sexist names is likely to get sued. However, at a night club, it is not illegal to use those very same terms.

The problem is that these work place ideals have leaked out into other areas of our culture. Each interest group, seeing the efficacy of applying this type of pressure has lobbied for the suppression of any terms, phrases, or ideas that clash with their own individual goals. This is dangerous. Very dangerous. It is to the point on many university campuses that a white man can not express his opinion unless it is in line with the leftist agenda of the professor. Otherwise he's labeled a racist, misogynist, etc. etc.. In May, 1989 I graduated from a small business college in the north east; it was a fairly conservative campus and I was looked at as somewhat of a radical. In September '89 I began studying at a large university in Boston. My opinions on politics hadn't changed, and yet I was regarded as a very conservative person. My free expression was very limited in classroom settings with one noticeable exception, and that professor was African-American.

There are many benefits to Free Speech with the underlying premise that the open and free market place of ideas will ultimately judge the truth of the matter. When one opens his mouth in the public square he will have to defend his position against people from other camps. An inability to do so will lead to the death of that particular idea. When that same idea is expressed in private, in smoke filled basements where there is no one to counter the points, then it can grow a rabid following. No better example than the white power movement of the late 80's early 90's.

Another benefit of free speech is that it allows people to blow off steam. It is a political pressure valve. Political correctness, the inability of the majority of this nation to comfortably express their opinions, has lead to the election of Donald Trump. 99% of the Trump voters do not believe all Mexicans are criminals. They're just sick of no one in power listening to their concerns about the unbridled immigration from our southern border and MSM and many other labeling them as racist for thinking the tap should be turned down if not off. This is just one of many examples that could be given.

The law of unintended consequences has us in the predicament we are now facing. Instead of increasingly reducing our right to free speech by political correctness, and stifling it by overwhelming government surveillance, we should be allowing greater and greater accommodations without making moral judgments against people who disagree with us.

Great op. Thanks.

a reply to: Deaf Alien

In my experience, the truly tough people never threaten violence. Internet tough guys, on the other hand, explicitly approve of violence as long as they can do so electronically.

a reply to: Kandinsky


"Thems fightin' words".

Words have always caused people to do weak and cowardly things.

Words have also delivered strength, calmed nerves, soothed troubles.


What words do we ban and what words do we laud?


I wish the bullet manufacturer would only make bullets that saved people and banned the production of bullets that harmed people.

The problem today, is people have no common sense.

I can say whatever I want. No matter who it offends.

And the people that hear me, should not be offended. That is silly.

If you don't like what I say, just think I am a moron, and don't hang around with me anymore.

Easy peasy.

a reply to: DBCowboy

What words do we ban and what words do we laud?

It's less about words and more about sentiments and outcomes.

There should be acceptable norms and who gets to define them?

a reply to: IAMTAT

a reply to: theantediluvian

there are a lot of people in this world and some here on ATS that would love nothing better than to see America and western democracies fail. they use our freedom of speech as a weapon, trying to pit each of us, against someone else.
they want Americans to doubt their own country, their institutions, their media, even their neighbors who might have a different political way of thinking.....America has only went through one civil war 150 years ago, but not anything on the scale of older westernized countries. those countries keep telling us to not fall for it, and yet, there are many that "seem" to be calling for anarchy on a national level.....

originally posted by: Misterlondon
Seeing as you mention the other thread.. There is a difference with having an opinion and causing offence because of your belief.. bIt it is a different thing when you start a thread with the sole intention of causing offence and encouraging bigotry and racism from other people..

Isn't disgusting outrageous speech protected ?

I agree with your words. Hurting people for no reason is dumb.

However, the subject we are speaking of was a worthy exercise.

OP had the "Right" to say it.

You had the "Right" to say he was being ridiculous.

That is the way it is supposed to be.

We can't start protecting feelings of any group or religion.

Just my opinion, and you have "Right" to think I'm an idiot.