Death Groupies

What does it say about us as a species, when art only becomes most beloved after the death of the artist?

Surely every person that would ever encounter this piece has heard the term "starving artist".

Who on this planet would deny that besides the natural beauty this earth, this universe that possesses us, art is what makes up for the ugly of this world?

And yet artists starve.

That could make sense, if considering how too much of anything will ruin any good market.

Yet the irony here is markets often only become 'what they are' after an artist dies.

Consider Sublime. Any painter. 2PAC.

This trend is so real we have hardliner conspiracy theory sets that involve when 'people' may fake their deaths or kill to reap the rewards.

Yet it goes far beyond that. Look at the love obsession surrounding Steve Jobs following his death. You'd think that people don't kill themselves due to the conditions at his iPhone factories, or something.

Perhaps we might attribute the essence of legend to this theme? Then why do people immediately go nuts for buying stuff promptly after a musician dies?

From a social / psychological position, this is such a bizarre ordeal in human affairs, its like a torment in that it never makes sense, no matter how many times you might contemplate its meaning... over the course of ones entire life I suspect.

What the hell is the matter with us as a species?

It's not like this rule set even applies to other cores of the human experience. Consider ideology.

There's so much I'd claim to understanding really well, and yet this puzzle is one I just can't crack. I'd love to hear all of your theories...

a reply to: IgnoranceIsntBlisss

Starving artist checking in;

Yea it's a weird phenomena, but I think (atleast from my perspective) the art usually plays a huge role in their demise. Like Tupac for example, his music and message was very prophetic and we almost knew it was coming. I guess it adds a lot of authenticity to the art itself and the death just brings it up to the light.

a reply to: IgnoranceIsntBlisss

It's about rarity. If the artist is alive the art isn't going to be valued as much because there's the possibility of more of it being made. Once the artist is dead, that's all of it there is, and if it's good people notice the absence of it.

To me art is just a memory of that place we were before, that we'll go after here. Some people can channel that.

It's about what could have been and what may have come.

a reply to: IgnoranceIsntBlisss

Then why do people immediately go nuts for buying stuff promptly after a musician dies?

Because the record companies produce tribute albums and advertise?

My favorites are the long lost, original cut, unreleased tracks.

What a bunch of profiteers.

a reply to: IgnoranceIsntBlisss

Humans rarely live in the moment. Too much thought is spent on the past and daydreaming of the future to appreciate what is here, living with us. Too often human realizations come after the fact, and the errors are often repeated, only to be realized again, after the fact. It is a part of our nature we must overcome, or we too may only be appreciated after we are long gone.

This is actually a very interesting question. I wish I had a definitive answer to it, but for some reason, once people die, suddenly people are forbidden by social convention to think ill of them, and whatever they left behind is almost deified. Maybe it's the idea that this is the last that will ever be done by them, giving it more value.

I found myself guilty of this very thing today, having a book signed by the author who is a known conspiracy person and there have been attempts on this person's life. I joked that, "if so-and-so gets offed, this will be worth a whole lot more".....and then felt awful about it.

There are so many examples of people that were suddenly raised to a God-like status after death. Example: I used to live in Lubbock, Texas. During Buddy Holly's lifetime, he was vilified there and his music was laughed at. Then he dies in that famous plane crash in an Iowa cornfield with two other rockers, and suddenly, Lubbock grabs on and he becomes a money-maker favorite son of the town......they forget all about the times he was beat up at the Hi-Dee-Ho Drive In burger joint because he was different and skinny.

Now there's a big bronze statue, a street named after him, and his band, and a huge museum with everything he ever touched, even crayons and a cub scout uniform, up to and including the glasses he wore when the plane went down.

NOW we see he was a genius, ahead of his time, worthy of adulation and the rather dreary Buddy Holly Avenue in the older part of town he used to run around in. A tornado took away the house he lived in originally, but you can see the other house he married his wife in.....blah blah blah.

I don't understand it, but yeah.......people treat you like a loser when you're alive, and love you when you're dead. We truly are a death cult.

Art is a process first and a product 2nd... I have been a professional artist for 40 years working in all sorts of media, from ceramics, Metal, prints, photography, painting, etc... Currently film.

I make things because it's a passion...when my work sells, it's a bonus but I would make what I want even if their was no money in it. It's nice to be appreciated as an artist but that's not my main motivation.

I have other skills to provide a good living.

a reply to: intrptr

Newly released stuff makes sense... problem is immediately following a death all records yet produced immediately each basically go off the charts on these kinds of cases. With the mainstream musicks in particular.

I see it more as a mainstream thing. Which means your elitist industry perspective is quite relevant.

Consider Dimebag Darrel. He was gunned down on stage. In this dystopian system we're subjects of, if anything he should have went down as the ultimate soldier in music history. Instead, Pantera was never mainstream usic system endorsed, so it was good news for them if anything (as Pantera projected strength when the Machine wants us all to be weak cultish types).



So now we're getting somewhere; the marketing. But it still doesn't entirely rationally explain why we're so screwed up as a species regarding this metric....

a reply to: IgnoranceIsntBlisss

Well--

What do we, as a species, generally do when someone dies?

We celebrate their life, their contributions, their presence in our lives.

What better time to appreciate someone's impact than upon their death?

You don't know what you got until you lose it. And so is the time to idolize and immortalize.

a reply to: IgnoranceIsntBlisss

People buy up the albums because they think one day they will be worth more money. Most are operating from greed too.

Bury a 10 dollar timex watch and in a thousand years it will be priceless.

a reply to: IgnoranceIsntBlisss

Well...2Pac and Sublime were pretty damn big before death.

Most of the musical artists were. I can't really think of one that only became known after death.

Painters have a bit of a harder time reaching masses so they are apt to be starving. Paintings don't come across in pictures very well and they can only sell one original.

Then you also have to look at how many out there that you'll never hear of versus the ones that actually made it...the chance of becoming a A-list celeb is almost zero.

Once I pass away you'll all realize how amazing and influential my topics on ATS are!



But, yes. It's a very interesting phenomenon. It's almost as if tragedy is a requirement for recognition. "The more one suffers the better their story and the more successful their achievements".

Humans generally have a natural attraction to drama. The epitome of tragedy is death, for us. Thus the greatest the drama?

a reply to: olaru12

Olaru12, not to detour the thread, but you always have a great attitude, great responses and have had an interesting, diverse life and career it seems. I have enjoyed reading your posts over time and didn't realize you were an artist as well as your writing and work in film.

originally posted by: Galadriel
a reply to: olaru12

Olaru12, not to detour the thread, but you always have a great attitude, great responses and have had an interesting, diverse life and career it seems. I have enjoyed reading your posts over time and didn't realize you were an artist as well as your writing and work in film.

Thank you!!! I have also taught art/design at the University level. I always tell my students to pick up a minor in marketing if you want to be a professional artist. There is a definite business side of Art that can't be avoided.

Much "art" is designed to sell, it's a product. Every "artist" has their own approach. I am blessed to have patrons that like and buy my work and I have Galleries and reps that help as well.

Times have drastically changed. People just don't care for "handmade" like they used to. pity....it's one of the reasons I adopted plan B and got into the entertainment biz....the media/TV/www/movies/sports/ eats content like crazy...

Livin the dream....

a reply to: NarcolepticBuddha

Often... loved ones... get all beat down.

Valid points!

In my impressions, remorse tends to be the 'celebration' in death. This here already could get very complicated.


But the bigger issue here, not with everyday morality, but with artists.

a reply to: IgnoranceIsntBlisss

Many people (but not myself), have a way to associate themselves on a personal level with whatever art icon they associate a segment of their lives with. So much so, that they begin to associate certain artworks with their own essence. When an artist dies that becomes part of their essence, then they feel as though part of themselves have died and experience a sense of mourning. That sense or feeling in a human (most humans) is very intense and only helps to solidify their feeling of community with the artist.

It doesn't say anything bad really about humanity, it just says that people are emotional and fear death. And rightly so.

a reply to: Vasa Croe

2pac was, but I never heard of Sublime until he OD'ed, and then that's all I heard was Sublime fort years after he died. The people around me. The society. Hooked. I guess the radio playing it on the hour after that helped set the stage.....