How the USA's healthcare system outperform's Norway.

"If a lie is only printed often enough, it becomes a quasi-truth, and if such a truth is repeated often enough, it becomes an article of belief, a dogma, and men will die for it."
-Isa Blagden

Many have come to believe that the US healthcare system is inferior to the system in Norway. Most have seen life expectancy data lifted up as absolute proof of this. That is misleading. Despite our terrible eating habits and lifestyle's, here in the USA, the free market system in the US has been closing the gap on outcomes in Norway.

Let me lay the data out as simply as I can.
From 1960 to 2012 Norway's life expectancy has increased by 10.7% or 7.9 years

From 1960 to 2012 The US life expectancy has increased by 12.8% or 8.97 years.

In what world is a 10% increase not outpaced by a 12% increase and how is +8.97 not better progress than +7.9?

In 1960 Norway had a better life expectancy than the US by 5.4% or 3.78 years.

In 2012 Norway's lead has been cut to +3.4% (a loss of 2%) or 2.71 years (a loss of 1.07 years)

Overall, Norway is just a healthier lifestyle country.

Diabetes
US 9.3%
Norway 4.7%

Fun fact, Norway has the lowest incidence of type 2 diabetes in the EU (they eat and live healthier) but they have the highest incidence of type 1 diabetes.

Teen pregnancy
US: 30 per 1000 women 15-19
Norway: 8 per 1000 women 15-19

Work days missed for illness
US: 4
Norway: 20 (certified by doctor) add 4 for self-certifiaction.

Now, this is not to say that certain aspects of the Norwegian system perform better than those in the USA, just as a whole the USA has been performing better.

a reply to: Dfairlite

This is a bit disingenuous. Health care and the health of citizens do not always correlate, weird I know.

But you didn't say what the actual life expectancies are.

You didn't mention obesity from what I saw.

And I didn't see anything about mental health.

Comparing two countries on cherry picked facts isn't necessarily a fair shake for evaluating two very different systems.

a reply to: Dfairlite A bit of cherry picking the data there. Let's look at the world chart for life expectancy. Norway comes in at number 15 yet the USA enters at 31st. So a lot to make up there.
Norway life expectancy compared to USA. In 1960 Norway comes in at 74 years of age . The USA comes in at 69 years of age.
In 2010, Norway comes in at 81 years of age and the USA comes in at 78 years of age. Still behind Norway.
So the USA has a lot more ground to make up before you can say the US is out performing Norway.

a reply to: CriticalStinker

There's also a lack of quality of life.

I realize life expectancy is a big one for people for whatever reason...

But I'd rather very happily live to be 80, rather than be in garbage condition from ages 60-90.

I don't act like I know the numbers.. But some statistics are misleading for when.

a reply to: Dfairlite

You have to be a bit of a chump to take the number of days off sick as a measure of how well a nations health service is performing.

Norway has a lower average temperature than the US, because many parts of the US get very hot indeed. The colder weather in Norway means that although the people there are healthier in terms of their long term health outcomes, they may experience more instances of cold weather exposure, flu, and the like, even though their health outcomes for what I would call serious ailments are much better.

I'm still trying to figure out this bit:

Many have come to believe that the US healthcare system is inferior to the system in Norway.

Can honestly say I've never heard one single person in my life talk about health care in the US compared to Norway's, much less say that ours is inferior to theirs.

a reply to: Dfairlite

IS there universal coverage in Norway?

I have seen people work with walking pneumonia because of $ it takes to take time off, and in the US some businesses will only allow you to use sick time (if it is even offered) if you have a Dr.'s signature to certify that you are sick.

US is pay to play with the medical, and it it a broken system. If the US out preforms Norway it isn't by design, it is by accident.

a reply to: CriticalStinker

That's the exact point I'm trying to make. Despite the poor health (from lifestyle choices) of American's, the outcomes in our system is gaining ground on Norway.

The obesity rate shows a similar trend; Norway 10%, America 35%. In the 1960 the US was 13.5%. So while we've gotten fatter we've extended our lives.

a reply to: Dfairlite
You may want to study and learn about the law of diminishing returns.
2nd.

a reply to: seasonal

Yes, they've had universal coverage since the mid 1800's.

But no, it's not by accident. The free market outperforms every master planned society.

a reply to: peck420

Excellent point! But if you're going to use that argument, you have some research to do. You need to go out, find the closest country to the US for lifestyle choices, that has universal care, and compare the outcomes to the US as well as the progress they've made using norway as a benchmark.

Until then, that's a hollow rebuttal.

a reply to: deadlyhope

Absolutely agree. But quality of health is largely a personal decision influenced by diet and exercise.

a reply to: Dfairlite

Extending lives is not a benchmark of health. We all know obesity is not healthy.

The difference between the US and the EU is that food is governed a bit differently because health care is tax funded and government run in the EU. So good luck finding Velveeta over there.

Here since FDA is government and health care is private we have a system where somehow processed foods are cheaper than wholesome natural food. So inevitably poor people will eat the trash, likely many of them uninsured putting strain on the health care system. And they pass off the losses to those who are insured in the form of premiums.

My whole point is I'm playing devils advocate, you can't really compare the two as they are so different. And you're attempt in my opinion is just cherry picking what you want to show the results you want.

originally posted by: Dfairlite
a reply to: peck420

Excellent point! But if you're going to use that argument, you have some research to do. You need to go out, find the closest country to the US for lifestyle choices, that has universal care, and compare the outcomes to the US as well as the progress they've made using norway as a benchmark.

Until then, that's a hollow rebuttal.

Canada vs USA.

2nd.

a reply to: crayzeed

Not cherry picking at all. You need to read the OP again and see the point I was making was that the US was gaining ground on the Norwegians. This means (in terms of progress) the US system is doing a better job than Norway's system.

a reply to: peck420

K, where's the data?

a reply to: Dfairlite

The US spends almost double what Norway does as a % of GDP yet falls behind on almost every single measure.

Not quite sure how the US is out performing?

a reply to: ScepticScot

Because we've been gaining ground on them. That's how we've outperformed. Despite more than triple the obesity rate, we've gained ground on them.

a reply to: Dfairlite

An increase in life expectancy between two arbitrary dates is not evidence that the US system is better.

a reply to: ScepticScot

OP isn't saying the US health care system is better per se. Just that the US system has improved more over the last *arbitrary number of years* than the Norwegian system has.

Of course the OP is using fairly arbitrary statistics to support that argument and ignoring ones that don't support it (like infant mortality rate, where the US is over double that of Norway) and the entire OP seems rather pointless but...I guess that's all OP is saying? Maybe?