Is There A Legal Remedy To Our Corruption Problem?

originally posted by: TheBadCabbie
a reply to: enlightenedservant

TL;DR? What do you mean by that? Do you mean that you didn't even take the time to read my OP, even though you took the time to type out a lengthy answer, or are you trying to say something else?

The "TL;DR" was aimed at my own lengthy response. As in, "I know what I just typed was extra long. So if anyone wants a summary, here's the TL;DR version".

originally posted by: enlightenedservant

originally posted by: TheBadCabbie
a reply to: enlightenedservant

TL;DR? What do you mean by that? Do you mean that you didn't even take the time to read my OP, even though you took the time to type out a lengthy answer, or are you trying to say something else?

The "TL;DR" was aimed at my own lengthy response. As in, "I know what I just typed was extra long. So if anyone wants a summary, here's the TL;DR version".

Ah I see. I thought it might have been that. Well thank you for your reply. Be the change...I agree, but that's not going to fix our problem. These corrupt officials and institutions will have to be dealt with. They're not all just going to suddenly turn over a new leaf, or decide to 'be the change'. I agree with you though, I don't want to burn it down either. If we wind up there, even if we win we've lost. Any legal solutions that you are aware of, that could be initiated by the people?

a reply to: TheBadCabbie

But it has to start with the individual. Otherwise we'll just replace corrupt officials with corrupt newbs.

Let's pretend that a specific local govt is viewed as "corrupt". So the people in the community wave a magic wand and all of those corrupt officials disappear. Who's going to replace them & what guarantee is there that the replacements won't be just as bad? If a citizen is a regular tax cheat, why should we expect him/her to do a govt's accounting properly or not funnel money on the side? If someone is abusive at home and to his/her neighbors, why should I suddenly believe that abusive person will treat the general public kindly if given a position of authority? I'd also expect a habitual liar to keep lying if given a bureaucratic job, & an adulterer to continue pursuing affairs if given a govt job.

Corruption is a global problem because people as a whole engage in corruption. And until people stop being corrupt, it won't matter what form of govt we have. Small town democratic districts have their own forms of corruption, as do mega cities, kingdoms, and dictatorships.

a reply to: enlightenedservant

Agreed, but still doesn't answer my question. I shall restate it for you, as you seem to be missing the point of this thread.

Let's just imagine for awhile that I had the goods on everyone. Every corrupt institution, corporation, and person of significance, I have knowledge and sufficient evidence of their crimes. Imagine also that congress will do nothing, and that the DOJ and/or other executive authorities are also unwilling to act(that one's not too hard to imagine, I know). What then? File charges or bring suit in federal court? What if the judges are corrupt as well, and refuse to hear the case? Is there a people's grand jury that can be convened? Some other legal remedy? What is it? For purposes of answering this question, if anyone will seriously attempt to do so, please give a two part answer that assumes that I have either 100 billion dollars to wage this legal battle, or zero dollars.

While I appreciate the ideas expressed in your response, that is not the question. I am the change I want to see. I encourage others to do the same. I'm all about it, frankly. That is not the question or focus of this thread though.

C'mon, ATS! I know you can do better than this! All you conspiracy experts, all you concerned govt. eggheads and knee breakers, all you veterans, everyone, think about it...

If, short of government intervention that will not occur, there is no solution to this problem short of violent revolution, then short of government intervention that may not occur, there may be no solution to this problem short of violent revolution! Is that what you want? I'm not advocating anything of the sort, I'm trying to point out the reality of this situation!

You want to see fighting in the streets, your neighbors cut down for no good reason, our country devastated, set back half a century? Do you really want to see the subversives all marched off to gulags never to be seen or heard from again(these may include you and I), or see the subversives win but with the wrong people on top so that the America we were trying to fix goes away forever?

I could go on and on, painting ugly pictures with my words of doom and gloom, but that is not the point of this thread. If we go there, we might get lucky and have it all work out well for the people and the nation. More likely it would get pretty ugly though. There must be some legal remedy that can be pursued. I do not wish to see us resort to drastic measures as a nation. Please help.

I'm writing this reply to bump this thread and again plead for your help. Help me, ATS! Help me solve this problem before the right or wrong people decide to take drastic measures. You there reading this on your screen, you may think you want this, but you really don't. I'm not just talking to the revolutionaries here, but to the government types as well. You may think you want this, but you really don't want this!

I feel compelled to do my civic duty here, having some grasp of the issues pertaining to this problem. Unfortunately, the solution escapes me so far. I love my country, despite it's faults. I do not wish to see us fall, nor to see freedom further curtailed. Please help.

IMO the American people have been sold out. Healthcare, education, foreign policy, food, water, energy and materials all have government oversight and all feed back into it. Us plebes are meant to bicker, fight and scrounge while feeding this machine.

I'd love to say there could be a happy ending (and I'm mostly an optimist!) but I just can't see it. It would require a vast majority of the American people working in unison to identify the problems, agree on them and take it down brick by brick, person by person.

We may continue on being "America" but it is far gone from home of the free.

The exposure of the facts is the first phase of the healing process. Without the widespread disclosure and recongnition of our problems, there would be no need for a road to recovery, so I think it is automatic after that. Gonna take a while, though.

The corruption is systemic.

The system is corrupt and the system is the legal system.

Kinda hard to get the system to allow you to file a grievance against itself.

The only way to get legal remedy would be to get enough people behind fixing the problems, but most people in this country are pretty much clueless about these things.

I wanted to revive this thread because I still see no solution to this problem. I had hoped there would be more discussion on this issue, but I'd settle for a solution for this problem. If our systems are corrupt, by what mechanism can we address this problem if/when the evidence becomes available to allow those complicit to be prosecuted?

Not a very popular topic I've noticed, but very important nonetheless. I love my country, I'd like to see an end to the corruption without violent revolution, if possible.

originally posted by: Phage
Dutarte has a plan.

The second amendment?

Government corruption seems rampant here in the US.

a reply to: TheBadCabbie

"...[S]eems...[?]

It IS.

Cabbie, (great username btw)

No easy answers.

It is not just our system that is corrupt. It is an aspect of human nature to feather one's nest at the expense of others, especially when we don't personally know them.

Broadly, any remedies should include much more transparency and accountability. Public service has to be made such that people don't get rich off it, and that any attempts to do so come under spectacular scrutiny.

One specific remedy is term limitations for ALL public offices. No more career congresspeople and whatnot.

What will be hard to break are the informal networks -- among the politicians, the judges, the high cops, etc.

Cheers

Military tribunals trying said corrupt officials under Law Of War are a potential remedy. I'm not sure how good of an idea that is, there's a lot that can go wrong with that, but it is a possible remedy which would technically be legal.

UCMJ 201 (f)(1)(B) states:

B.Cases under the law of war.

i.General courts-martial may try any person who by the law of war is subject to trial by military tribunal for any crime or offense against:

a.The law of war; or

b.The law of the territory occupied as an incident of war or belligerency whenever the local civil authority is superseded in whole or part by the military authority of the occupying power. The law of the occupied territory includes the local criminal law as adopted or modified by competent authority, and the proclamations, ordinances, regulations, or orders promulgated by competent authority of the occupying power.

ii.When a general court-martial exercises jurisdiction under the law of war, it may adjudge any punishment permitted by the law of war.

mcm.mil...-201

bounty hunters.

not the new tv kind, like the lipstick bounty hunters.

the spaghetti western kind.

the kid that doesn't end well for the perp.

.

put a price on all of them.

starting with a new tesla.

a reply to: TheBadCabbie

There are far too many laws for the police to practically enforce. Plus they are being used as tax gathers for petty offenses. If a family man with five kids is driving down the highway and he has a bald tire it is simply because he is juggling finances for food or rent. Fining and impounding the car, instead of a brief warning to get it fixed in a reasonable period of time should be the norm. The reality is they are wasting a lot of time because the offenses are so numerous they can basically please themselves on the ones that they pursue.
You also have the upper echelons all Masons meeting their business cronies down at the lodge and having cozy chats about this and that. It just won't work that way.

a reply to: anonentity

What do you mean, exactly? Please clarify.

a reply to: TheBadCabbie

That the laws have just been added and added over the years. So the actual list of offenses and potential crimes are so many that they are now impossible to enforce without discrimination. A police officer well read in the act of the offense, would never get a hundred yards from the police station without spending all his shift time writing tickets. For instance, if a car touches the white line it should be stopped to check whether the driver is under the influence, not just of alcohol but a myriad of other drugs legal and illegal which could pose serious risks.
Its no secret that all the top cops are masons so who do they owe the greatest degree of respect to, the people they serve or their fellow masons?

originally posted by: anonentity
a reply to: TheBadCabbie

That the laws have just been added and added over the years. So the actual list of offenses and potential crimes are so many that they are now impossible to enforce without discrimination. A police officer well read in the act of the offense, would never get a hundred yards from the police station without spending all his shift time writing tickets. For instance, if a car touches the white line it should be stopped to check whether the driver is under the influence, not just of alcohol but a myriad of other drugs legal and illegal which could pose serious risks.
Its no secret that all the top cops are masons so who do they owe the greatest degree of respect to, the people they serve or their fellow masons?

Well sure then, I'd tend to agree. That's largely the point of this thread, to explore other options short of revolt to try and solve this problem legally, despite the lack of properly functioning law enforcement and criminal justice infrastructure. I take it that you're basically agreeing with that opening concern that I highlighted, that the official channels by which one would seek justice in a properly functioning criminal justice system are all likely compromised?

Thanks for the reply. Also, please give me your thoughts on this:

Let's just imagine for awhile that I had the goods on everyone. Every corrupt institution, corporation, and person of significance, I have knowledge and sufficient evidence of their crimes. Imagine also that congress will do nothing, and that the DOJ and/or other executive authorities are also unwilling to act(that one's not too hard to imagine, I know). What then? File charges or bring suit in federal court? What if the judges are corrupt as well, and refuse to hear the case? Is there a people's grand jury that can be convened? Some other legal remedy? What is it? For purposes of answering this question, if anyone will seriously attempt to do so, please give a two part answer that assumes that I have either 100 billion dollars to wage this legal battle, or zero dollars.

a reply to: TheBadCabbie

Historically there is no remedy simply because the system has become unfit for purpose. The whole system runs because the majority go along with it worts and all. The only reason it works is that there is enough money created which filters down the chain. Which in reality is a way of monetizing time for effort. Simply because of the ability to create food with minimal input. It's gone from eighty percent of the workforce down to about two percent. That's why there are so many unproductive jobs available, Which had to be invented to make a living. All because of cheap fuel and technology. If this stops because of legislation, or shortage and nothing replaces it . It will just collapse. Money as such will be debased, and all the corruption will have to be paid by other means, when there isn't any means it will just become more inefficient until it stops. People will just go their separate ways and survive or not depending on their actual skill sets. It is all to do with food and shelter the rest is fashion.
In the past when corruption is endemic as it seems to be now. It just basically collapses the system. Sorry, I can't suggest a remedy.