The Main Problem within Christianity; Jesus Vs Paul

a reply to: Raggedyman

I don't see greed or materialism in the OP...

OF course hes talking about spiritual wealth not material

a reply to: SoulSurfer

Wrong, it is about taking personal responsibility, the Golden rule, the law of love. It is about being Selfless, the law of Moses. MORALITY.

The law of Moses isn't the law of love... there were 613 laws in the Torah, and Jesus didn't follow them all...

No, i believe the law Jesus was talking about was referred to as "the royal law" as James called it...

that is the law of love... Not the laws of Moses

reap what you so is basically Karma... And Jesus covered that, just didn't use the word

a reply to: SoulSurfer

So if we are to keep Moses laws, are we still expected to stone adulterers?
What OT laws should I,as a Christian keep and what OT laws should I not keep according to your theology
No crayfish, no pork?
Kill rebellious teens...
Don't wear two kinds of materials woven together
Cracked cups and pots?
Menstrual cycles
Sick people being ostracised

So tell me friend, what's the laws do you think I should keep and what laws can I have a get out of jail free card on

Here are two that Jesus taugh, love God, love each other.
Yet you want to add more, bit like a Pharisee arnt you

originally posted by: Akragon
a reply to: Raggedyman

I don't see greed or materialism in the OP...

OF course hes talking about spiritual wealth not material

Guess I heard it differently, I could be wrong
Then we agree it seems

a reply to: Raggedyman

No stoning, in the end it is about love and forgiveness. I am not adding anything to anything. I am simply explaining things in ways for non Christians to also understand. But ultimately it leads to morals, and respecting one another through love. This is how a society thrives. Through morals, which also increases freedom. But the more immorality consume the majority, the more we tighten this prison.

I already gave you a video which summed up the law of moses for you personally:


the other videos is to reach atheists and others, to reach a common ground. Because there is a common ground.
(It's also my attempt to save the souls of atheists.)


Here is more information with regards to the Law of moses by the fuel project.





I also encourage you to check out some of the fuel projects works about biblical history.

Know Your Enemy by the Fuel Project

a reply to: intrptr

Eph 6:13 Wherefore take unto you the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand.
14 Stand therefore, having your loins girt about with truth, and having on the breastplate of righteousness;
15 And your feet shod with the preparation of the gospel of peace;
16 Above all, taking the shield of faith, wherewith ye shall be able to quench all the fiery darts of the wicked.
17 And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God:
18 Praying always with all prayer and supplication in the Spirit, and watching thereunto with all perseverance and supplication for all saints;

a reply to: SoulSurfer

I'm replying to an earlier post of yours. The video about the principal of reap and sow?

Nice background music, dreamy voice, and appeasing graphics. The message misses the mark.

"What we plant (sow) in our minds we eventually fulfill (reap) in the real world."

I don't care what you think you can do or what 'good' thoughts you entertain, we only affect the real world a little bit.

In my experience, despite best intentions, Life shows up, bang, in your face.

a reply to: intrptr

I don't care what you think you can do or what 'good' thoughts you entertain, we only affect the real world a little bit. In my experience, despite best intentions, Life shows up, bang, in your face.

Its really hard to know what type of butterfly effects happen .A wrong turn can have you catapulting over a 200 foot cliff or avoiding a disaster . A kind word to a stranger can produce great changes . I used to like those Paul Harvey , and the rest of the storys .

originally posted by: intrptr


In my experience, despite best intentions, Life shows up, bang, in your face.

Hence; why you should be responsible of your own actions. I care not about greed. What I do care about is society becoming moral, so we can all live together in peace and harmony. Honestly I am aware that "riches" are fiction, and will never make one happy. What does make me happy however is people getting along as brothers and sisters, We are all part of the human race after all.

Love, family, harmony, relationships/ friends; Those are the only real treasures worth cultivating. And that is my one and only intention.

a reply to: SoulSurfer

What I do care about is society becoming moral, so we can all live together in peace and harmony.

Thats nice.

While you are busy preaching that the dark side is just as busy plotting their crimes.

That never changes. We adopt blinders to the real injustice and rights violations going on 'out there'.

Out of sight out of mind.

Nice and peaceful in a church service, though.

a reply to: intrptr

While you are busy preaching that the dark side is just as busy plotting their crimes. That never changes. We adopt blinders to the real injustice and rights violations going on 'out there'.

No doubt the battle rages ...While they plot their crimes they also face the fact of being exposed ...They would sooner us go after them with our sticks and stones but they cant handle the light of truth .It is a battle but I think truth wins out at the end of the day ...or that is my hope .

originally posted by: the2ofusr1
a reply to: intrptr

While you are busy preaching that the dark side is just as busy plotting their crimes. That never changes. We adopt blinders to the real injustice and rights violations going on 'out there'.

No doubt the battle rages ...While they plot their crimes they also face the fact of being exposed ...They would sooner us go after them with our sticks and stones but they cant handle the light of truth .It is a battle but I think truth wins out at the end of the day ...or that is my hope .

Really? What about when tens of millions die as a result of a hitler?

Wheres the divine intervention? What about all the lingering suffering and traumatic deaths of all peoples during that tragic epoch?

Was God asleep at the switch? Hows many emergency prayers went up during the millions dying as a result of death camps, if the angels are so close and God is so attentive and all, how come he all powerful didn;t stop that before it even began?

And that is just one of the cycles of death and destruction during the long and bitter history of empires as we well know. People that develop this hope and prayer thing really haven't had anything tragic happen to them or their country even.

TBH, a lot of people use this preaching and prayer thing as an excuse to not have to actually lend a hand to help others in need. Its kind of passing on the responsibility, they say we'll pray for you.

Dumping it in Gods lap...

originally posted by: intrptr


Really? What about when tens of millions die as a result of a hitler?

Wheres the divine intervention? What about all the lingering suffering and traumatic deaths of all peoples during that tragic epoch?

Was God asleep at the switch? Hows many emergency prayers went up during the millions dying as a result of death camps, if the angels are so close and God is so attentive and all, how come he all powerful didn;t stop that before it even began?

And that is just one of the cycles of death and destruction during the long and bitter history of empires as we well know. People that develop this hope and prayer thing really haven't had anything tragic happen to them or their country even.

TBH, a lot of people use this preaching and prayer thing as an excuse to not have to actually lend a hand to help others in need. Its kind of passing on the responsibility, they say we'll pray for you.

Dumping it in Gods lap...

Believe me, I once shared your sentiments, but you want me to be honest with you? God is perhaps the only refuge we have left, considering this world is on the brink of destruction.

Look around you, what do you see? Chaos aye? But is that God's doing or our own? Why should he intervene when he gave us the ability to reason and remain moral as aswell as the ability to fix things?

is it God's fault humanity chooses to do evil? What about free will? if he intervened all the time it wouldn't exactly be free will would it? God does intervene but in his own timing. This is what I learned the hard way, but it also takes extra close attention to know when he is around.


the point of the op however is about humanity taking personal responsibility for their own actions instead as you said, dumping it on God's lap. God gave us the tools we need. The rest is up to us to follow through.

a reply to: SoulSurfer

Way to disagree wth yourself.

Don't take that too hard. Can't have it both ways.

a reply to: intrptr

Really? What about when tens of millions die as a result of a hitler?

It was not only Hitler and if the real truth be known he had lots of help and more then likely got set up ...So you seem to think or feel that divine intervention would be a good thing ...I agree ...Which caused me to search out a answer .Which caused me to do some real soul searching personally ...The answer is in the Mosaic picture .The more pieces you add to it the more resolution you get and the better the picture emerges which has the answer . There is no cheating you can do to get the answer ...Its hard work and not for lazy pew setters or fools ...peace

a reply to: ketsuko

I am not sure I would define that as faith. That is walking the golden path from my point of view.

But the souls who walk that path are normally very nice to have around. Sooner or later they start to shine.

a reply to: intrptr

If a model of reality that include the synchronistic do not give a logical explanation to why things happen as they happen then there is something wrong with the model (religion).

The higher levels could intervene if they wanted. But going over the allowed intervention goes against free will. They could of course circumvent the free will by doing the fall and then awakening where they allowed to intervene however much they see fit. If a huge number willingly fall then this place will be in for an extreme change.

a reply to: the2ofusr1

It was not only Hitler

Yes it was. Read "Rise and Fall of the Third Reich".

Most definitely manipulation by hitler led to his usurping power. His direct control over the machine he wrought kept it going even past the point of insanity when it was clear all was lost. There were multiple assassination attempts, that ultimately failed, giving many the impression he was spared by unseen forces to continue his barbarous, treacherous reign to the bitter end.

Or take the Manhattan project to build nuclear weapons to drop on Japan, quite clearly the most expensive project ever to design, construct and deliver the most potent weapon to a specific place and time were it incinerated two cities.

Even today the since sprouted nuclear industry both for power and bomb making has killed untold numbers from radioactive releases into the world, ongoing the number one cause of slow lingering death by cancers...

...So you seem to think or feel that divine intervention would be a good thing ...I agree ...Which caused me to search out a answer .Which caused me to do some real soul searching personally ...The answer is in the Mosaic picture .The more pieces you add to it the more resolution you get and the better the picture emerges which has the answer . There is no cheating you can do to get the answer ...Its hard work and not for lazy pew setters or fools ...peace

I agree, but the answer is simpler. Imo, we as a human kind species and as individuals are left up to our devices , we can roast millions in the oven of our hatred or slow kill them with lo level radiation, oil, heavy metals, PCBs, yada yada.

In the end all that matters is how we as individuals personally behaved towards others, during the time given us here.

originally posted by: LittleByLittle
a reply to: intrptr

If a model of reality that include the synchronistic do not give a logical explanation to why things happen as they happen then there is something wrong with the model (religion).

The higher levels could intervene if they wanted. But going over the allowed intervention goes against free will. They could of course circumvent the free will by doing the fall and then awakening where they allowed to intervene however much they see fit. If a huge number willingly fall then this place will be in for an extreme change.

Well said.

I agree.

But thought I would add, the interventions do happen, mostly on a macro level, people are spared due to 'seemingly' miraculous circumstance.

Many others are awakened thru suffering as well.

They suffer from evil until they are awakened by it. Call it a gift of grace or whatever that imbues us to change to try and be better people.

This is but the bed of fertile soil we all develop and grow in towards one end or another. Matters less how we meet that end than how we behaved along the way.

a reply to: intrptr

In the end all that matters is how we as individuals personally behaved towards others, during the time given us here.

Yep ...and... Nope ...

Hitler was and is like the other puppets ...Some puppets are willing to fall on to their own sword for their masters ...think Jesuits or Jihadists ...To really get to the heart of what is going on ,needs more then 3D or 4D perspective .That for me is the spiritual realm where time is not ticking like in our dimensional realm .We have 5 senses ,so where are the other 2 ...Your U2U or me caught me thinking ...oh crap what did I do ...I usually only get Mod mail and it is usually accompanied with a deduction of points ...500 or 1000 ...I am still trying to figure out what these points are ....I mean should I be like hey leave my points alone .. I didn't even know that I had that many points to loose ... Still don't know if its important in the grand scheme of ATS

I do know that you can use the word "lisp" in a way that another member will report you and then some Mod. will take their time to take away those points and send you a mail that basically says please don't do that again ....you get my drift ?

a reply to: intrptr
If you have an open mind, watch this (and the series.)
The Greatest Commandment...But Who’s Obeying It?