If we work together..we can change the Earth.

a reply to: RAY1990

Well...I'm not sure if I'm correctly comprehending everything that you have said but the system I have in mind would make everybody equal at least in the areas that matter everybody would have a job and everybody would work toward providing for one another. Nothing would be handed out or giving away for free we would all have jobs that we had to report to each day although it would not be like the monotonous jobs that we have now we would rotate in and out of jobs periodically depending on what type of a job it was. And whether or not we had received the training to be able to perform that job but the training would be available to everybody for every job that existed there and once you became qualified you would be put on the list of eligible workers and you would be put on the schedule and eventually you would rotate into those jobs that you were qualified for.

There would be a lot less variety of jobs then there is right now because we would stick with the things that were necessary such as making the building materials to build the pods and to build the enclosed bike ways growing the food preserving the food preparing the food... building bicycles repairing bicycles maintaining the structures and things that we had there as well as I'm sure there would be a number of other jobs that I am not thinking about right now....but not like we have now under this system.. there will not be jobs like at call centers or telemarketers sales people or marketing people or so many of the things that exist because of the consumption-driven economy..

The only types of jobs that will be there will be jobs doing real things building tangible things for a good purpose.

Under the system I have in mind it would require a lot more people on each job...because we would revert back to labor-intensive methods rather than automation. The primary objective would be to sustain ourselves by providing our own food and preparing our own food as well as expanding the infrastructure to be able to assimilate more people into it.

a reply to: Shuye

Yes I have said in other threads that the infrastructure part is the easy part. As I see it we have two choices we can throw up our hands and say we give up ...or we can say let's do the best we can do with the knowledge that we have...to set up guidelines that will be most conducive to bringing about peace and contentment within this society.

The fact that this infrastructure will give the people useful occupation that they will enjoy as well as provide for them shelter and food that is very satisfying will go a long way toward making the people content and in my opinion content people do not usually go out of their way to cause problems they're too busy being content and enjoying their lives.

But I certainly think there are things that we can do to help eliminate some of the problems that we are facing today... For example we could say that we would not allow any religious structures there... or religious gatherings. Everyone is free to Worship in their own way but it must be a personal thing and we will not allow religious organizations to be formed there...all the spiritual beliefs must be practiced on the personal level.

I don't see why any reasonable person would have a problem with that... in my own mind worship is a very personal thing.. I don't need other people around me in order for me to be able to worship the God that I perceive in my own mind.. because in the end..God for each person is only what that person is able to conceive of him or her as being.... so in that sense religion, spirituality or belief is and can only be a personal thing.

That is only one example of a change we could make that I think would help. It would help people to be individuals and eliminate groupthink... I also would not have mass media available there or television... people could occupy themselves in their free time by reading books or other activities. People that could not abide by these things would just not be qualified to be there... this isn't something that is supposed to fit everybody... this is something that is supposed to be set up in a way that we think has the best chance of survival and of being successful in the long run.

a reply to: SlapMonkey

Well. ....I was thinking of a small group of maybe a 1,000 people to start with...now I just need someone to bankroll the project.....lol. That's the hard part.

a reply to: HarryJoy

Maybe ask George Soros?

a reply to: SlapMonkey

Yeah....it could help redeem him from some negative karma.

a reply to: HarryJoy

It's really not that easy.

A lot of what you speak of is basically what the Armish have been doing for a while. They live what some may call a backwards life but at the end of the day their life is relatively sustainable.

You can build bikes from wood but what about the tires? You'll need metal too.

Depending on farming methods you'll either need fertilizer and pesticides or lots of land and a relatively large loss of crops rate to guarantee sustainability.

Then you have medication for humans and animals. Do you condemn to death those that need insulin for instance, what about injury? A good chance exists that whomever joins you may see their life expectancy shortened drastically.

You mention training for jobs, it takes time to learn, sometimes years. A worker needs adequate tools also, tools that wear out.

Eventually you'll need more bodies or to trade with outsiders.

What form of rule do we have, because from my experience even like minded people tend to disagree a lot.

A lot to consider.

Roman soldiers for instance, they were extremely reliable and for the most part they could be highly self sufficient, but even they wouldn't last 6 months without logistical support. They needed blacksmiths, hides to be tanned, food to be prepared, someone to understand the land and where to get water and how. It all adds up, I'd guess at 4 men to support 1 soldier indefinitely. Because you can't have any old fool chopping down trees and making tools, raising livestock and applying medicine.

It's not easy building a society, the smaller they are the more difficult it can be.

If you have the time try studying some tribes, their life expectancy and how they utilize everything they can. The ones who have it "easy" usually have an abundance of resources available... Like the Australian aboriginal, they can make fire and a wealth of meat exists in the bush if you know where to look.

Location can be everything.

a reply to: RAY1990

The system I have in mind would be a hybrid type system agriculture /industry... I see it as a system that does have industry.....but only that industry required to make the things 'necessary' for sustainability and expansion of the infrastructure. But because of all of the materials that we have already made in the current system we can 'cheat' so to speak. For instance. ...there is already enough refined metal in the world to many times over provide the raw material for making everything that the whole world would ever 'need' that requires metal. We simply have to reallocate a portion of it for the new system.

Yes. ....the system would have to have some machines that it might not have the ability to make itself. ..but why does it matter because those machines are already in existence ? For example... the infrastructure I have in mind would need to have some textile industry in place... so it would need the machines necessary to manufacture textiles.. but there are plenty of weaving machines and whatever other types of machines needed already in existence. .. many of them sitting idly because they are now obsolete due to new computer-controlled weaving machines and such... but the old style machines (No..I don't mean old hand operated ones either) are still out there and all of the spare parts for them that could ever be needed already exist and will probably end up being thrown into a dump one day or recycled into scrap metal. These machines are durable enough so that they would last long enough to make all of the textiles that we and everyone else would ever 'need'.

If we think about it this way we can see that all the machines and parts that we could ever need already exist in the present system we just have to reallocate them and put them into this new system and we will be set up essentially forever. It is actually the same with a lot of the materials those materials that we would need already exist they just need to be reallocated. Yes it is cheating but not really ...it's just using what we already have made....in a new way a more sensible way.

a reply to: HarryJoy

So a bartering system must exist.

How about using 3D printing machines?

It's near pointless being 100 years behind, from what I gather it's why many nations adopt a near slave labour fashion towards production, machinery isn't cheap to buy nor maintain or run.

We'll need a fuel source too, we could use animal waste but then we are looking at about £250,000 or about $500,000 minimum. Or do a bit digging into wood powered engines of Nazi Germany WWII. Wood is a great resource.

So 1 specialist job we'll need is engineers, that's a given. Skilled woodworkers will be a must and people who are a dab hand at farming and animal husbandry.

Brick production?

Mud is a usable resource but only in certain climates, water is the enemy concerning that...

a reply to: RAY1990

No bartering and no currency ....just get up and go to work each day. Eat breakfast at the cafeteria before work....work 3 hrs go to the cafeteria for lunch go back to work for 3 more hours. Supper will be served later or made to go...so people don't have to go back to cafeteria later. Or maybe just 2 meals a day plus light meal or snack to take home. Home and Bike is provided and maintained by the system...no power bill, no phone bill and no car payment. Food is produced, prepared and served by the system.

Everyone will have a turn on kitchen crew...and everyone can be put on the schedule for any jobs they are qualified for....the time between rotations would depend on the type of job.

I personally think hemp canvas material saturated with resin/pitch and compressed in multiple layers and dried...would create a strong weather proof and durable construction panel. Ridges or flanges could be incorporated in order to achieve rigidity...much like the ridges in corrugated metal roofing for example.

You could build panels of any size, shape or thickness....depending on the application. Panels could be used for the deck of the bike ways as well as curved panels to form the roof and walls of the bike ways. The pods/homes could also be constructed this way....although we would have to develop the process and determine what natural resins and saps/pitch would work.

Yes there would have to be some skilled people in order to develop the proprietory components and setup production facilities. Yes a few Engineers would be needed to design and develop some things.....esg/the bio mass fuel pellet fired home power and heat plant.

I'm sure there would be alot of details but I don't foresee any insurmountable problems.

a reply to: HarryJoy

The Globalists seek to dehumanize the world. They seek to enslave and destroy the heritage that humanity has built. Alex has a message to wake those who are still sleeping, blissfully aware of their plans.

a reply to: DJMSN

Sorry about the long delay....The system that I am envisioning would need a relatively large piece of land to build the infrastructure on....once the infrastructure was built the system would be quite autonomous....in the sense that every one would have a job. And as long as we went to work most days all of our needs would be met.

I personally believe that a meatless diet would be the far better way to go for a number of reasons. ..

a reply to: HarryJoy

Interesting thread HarryJoy, thanks for posting. I don't think I would like your co-op. It sounds like a neat idea and all, I just think it's too restricting. To each their own though, so I would certainly like to see you give it a try. I might even try it out for awhile. I just don't think I would like it.

I think you're onto something in that we should live more communally. That, as a society, we should develop local communal systems that allow people to pool their labor and thereby improve their station in life more easily than they might by the traditional route. Organized group vs. capitalist society has the potential to work out much better for those individuals involved than lone individual vs. capitalist society. I'm not saying capitalism sucks, or that it's the coolest thing ever either. I'm just saying an organized group could have a better chance of success in the world than a man or woman alone, in theory at least.

I want to share my OTEC thread with you. This is one of my utopian/industrialist fantasies. People could move out to sea and farm the oceans for food water and energy while developing the social structure necessary to flourish as a spacefaring culture, repairing the planet in the process. Floating cities or artificial islands are autonomous nations under the Geneva convention. As long as you're in international waters, you could literally be your own little nation out there. That might be something to consider, then, when you get to the point where you can no longer conform to the laws of the nation where you start your co-op. You could move out to sea.
www.abovetopsecret.com...

a reply to: RAY1990
I agree; life needs to go on. Human life maybe not so much.
Humans evils far surpass humanity good deeds. I don't want to see the world destroyed, nor humanity on it. But we need a huge culling, if humanity is to have any chance avoiding its own extinction. Humanity first is an entirely anthropocentric unsustainable viewpoint and is unbalanced and very destructive. All life has an intrinsic necessity to exist. However, the great majority of humans believe everything on earth is put here by an imaginary being to service us. Earth is right now!, yes right now, experiencing its 6th mass extinction. The change I wish to see is a mass culling of humans before its too late.

a reply to: RAY1990
I agree; life needs to go on. Human life maybe not so much.
Humans evils far surpass humanity good deeds. I don't want to see the world destroyed, nor humanity on it. But we need a huge culling, if humanity is to have any chance avoiding its own extinction. Humanity first is an entirely anthropocentric unsustainable viewpoint and is unbalanced and very destructive. All life has an intrinsic necessity to exist. However, the great majority of humans believe everything on earth is put here by an imaginary being to service us. Earth is right now!, yes right now, experiencing its 6th mass extinction. The change I wish to see is a mass culling of humans before its too late.

a reply to: RAY1990
I agree; life needs to go on. Human life maybe not so much.
Humans evils far surpass humanity good deeds. I don't want to see the world destroyed, nor humanity on it. But we need a huge culling, if humanity is to have any chance avoiding its own extinction. Humanity first is an entirely anthropocentric unsustainable viewpoint and is unbalanced and very destructive. All life has an intrinsic necessity to exist. However, the great majority of humans believe everything on earth is put here by an imaginary being to service us. Earth is right now!, yes right now, experiencing its 6th mass extinction. The change I wish to see is a mass culling of humans before its too late.

a reply to: TheBadCabbie

Thank you....I will check out the thread. As far as the system that I envision...I feel strongly that if I could get enough information compiled along with illustrations most people would change their mind about it. I think I need to work on a book about it.

a reply to: noonebutme

Plenty needs fixing and that is more than apparent to those that look. We are living through a mass extinction event, look at the stats. The evidence is there. There is massive habitat and biome loss worldwide. We are polluting and putting a strain on natural systems that support us and the rest of the biosphere..

Dont worry about the land you dont need land to make things better. There are lots of ways people are rewidling areas. People are doing community buy outs of land, others are gorilla gardening there are plenty of ways and much that can be done,

As for healthy systems than can be defined in many ways. The measurement of biodiversity within a woodland widerness is one for example....

Have a look at the philosophy of permaculture.. Permanent Culture. Closed looped systems that feed back.
Create systems that produce instead on consume. You can do that just from gardening. A powerful message in the age of consumerism.

You dont have to feel so dis-empowered.. We are doing it..!

a reply to: purplemer

You are right about doing things where you are now. The permaculture and Guerrilla gardening are great ideas. Permaculture is something I would definitely incorporate into the system that I envision.

The biggest problem that I see regarding people in urban areas is....no way to gain energy independence. I mean how can people heat their homes without the power grids?

IMO....Cities in non-temperate climates are extremely vulnerable to power failures. I think the government should look at the power grids for each major city and develop emergency power supplies in case of major power failures ( hopefully they already have ). This could at least be a stop gap measure until a better overall system is developed.

One thing that individuals could do to help prepare themselves. Would be to have a kerosene heater and as much kerosene as they could manage to save. That way they could at least heat one room of their home if they should lose power.

originally posted by: strongfp
In the current state of the world it's not gonna happen anytime soon.
You're talking about globalization, but you've come to the wrong site to talk about that since so many people here are nationalists and think a unified planet earth is just a scheme for the NWO.
Once we take down borders (not literally) we can maybe start there.

No, globalization turns the planet into the titanic, minimizing redundancy, opening the entire world to a global meltdown, when just one of the cogs of the economical systems falters. It's also environmentally unsound, with international shipping causing more pollution than all the cars in the world combined. Compartimization and locally made goods are the answer to survivng disasters, natural or otherwise, that are guaranteed to occur.

But what is needed are laws that outlaw usury, forcing all governments and people to live within their means. Laws that ban international conglomerates in favour of companies that specialize in locally made goods. Laws that allow affordable housing and the right for the people to build their own homes. Laws that allow communities to grow their own food on shared land. etc

a reply to: HarryJoy

I dont think there is any doubt about that and I think %99.9999 of people would agree with it.

Question is why do we not do it?

All this come togehter stuff is great but:

What are going to come together about? 3 issues, 6 issues,10 issues? 100? 1000 issues?

How would we agree on what number of things we are going to come together on

then we need to agree on what these x things are

then we need to agree on what are the solutions to these x things is to be?

THEN WE ARE UNSTOPPBLE

Perhaps restoration of goverment of the people by we the people might be one.

perahps laws that make it an auto life sentence for any govt official who knowlingy permits or particupates in the harrasssment or career harm to any public offical acting in accoradance with their oath and or job description, might be another.

perhaps making it an auto life sentence for busienss CEO's executives who fmail to provde full disclosue to all contracts and agreements they enter into witth indivdual humans and other corporate enity.

perhaps making entering into a 'free' trade agreement with another country illegal and punishable to 50 years goal for all those who vote in favour of such a deal with providing full disclosure to the public.

and finaly, make it 10 years auto goal for any politican who does not wear their sponsers logo's on their cloths when appearing on broadcast media and when appearing in the house or the senate and on offical enagements, if they receive more one single $10,000 donation per term of office from the same party and it related legal entities.

Coming to gether on wether or not the earth is flat and wether not we did or did not go to the moon, just wont cut it im afraid.