Is a Universal Basic Income(UBI) coming?

originally posted by: mclarenmp4
a reply to: LABTECH767

Americans are so opposed to socialism, it's hard for them to accept the philosophy.

I'm a believer that if you give people their basic needs, they will then pursue better things. If you don't have to worry about your basic needs, your taking a whole level of stress off of everyone, which can only be a good thing.
We are all too stressed in this world.

I don't think I've ever ran into a dumber bunch of posts.

Are you guys trolling?

Do you not understand ANYTHING regarding economics?

Good luck making a robot that can plaster walls as good as me lol. I also think more jobs will be created and a whole new system will develop. Even if only a small amount of people are high achievers the rest will still want to contribute in their own ways which haven't been fully developed yet. New ways people will earn on social media and the sheer increase in leisurely activities will create opportunity.

Every action has an equal and opposite reaction and the closer we get to living like they did on star trek the better off humanity will be.
I work really hard and would feel good knowing my hard work was helping our specie's progress.

originally posted by: coop039
What happens when the number of people getting UBI exceeds the amount taxed on the working people? Sooner or later people will get tired of paying for others to do nothing.

Your hypothesis is the problem.

You think that UBI will come from the taxes on the working people's income.

That certainly makes it seem "unfair."

But, you forget, right now, taxes in the US doesn't pay for the US spending.

The US spends far more than it receives in taxes from its population, and has been doing this for decades already.

How is this possible?

originally posted by: Slickinfinity
Good luck making a robot that can plaster walls as good as me lol.

Not only will the robot plaster the wall better.

It will do it consistently the exact same way every time.

Guaranteed production quality.

originally posted by: AMPTAH

originally posted by: Slickinfinity
Good luck making a robot that can plaster walls as good as me lol.

Not only will the robot plaster the wall better.

It will do it consistently the exact same way every time.

Guaranteed production quality.

The ignorance is astounding.

But, what can you expect from people who sit around all day thinking if thinga instead of doing them?

a reply to: muSSang

Why make a machine if human capital is so cheap? What about legacy costs. I am not in favor of this program as I believe it will attract to many slackers.
As far as paying for it, the articles explain it a bit, but I dont get who will consume those products on a limited wage.

a reply to: intrptr

I agree. I think the problem now is that their is a lack of good jobs to sustain what people have been used to. The current jobless rate is a lie as it does not include those who have quit looking. I mean he participation rate is above 50% so I would guess the actual unemployment rate is above 10% still. I cant find any stats on underemployment, but if you add that in...

a reply to: Aliensun

It's the new welfare state. BUT, what if those 50% numbers are true. It will require a whole rethink of the system. I am not at all for a welfare state, but just wondering aloud about where the next big employment sector will be. God knows it wont be in the car industry as they are petrified that the new generation doesnt want to own a car.

a reply to: mclarenmp4

The problem is that 90% of those people are poor for a reason and will just blow it on dumb stuff. They will end up needing assistance no matter what. It will make walmart happy though.

a reply to: AMPTAH

Thanks, and you make my point. You described communism, or socailism, or some type of feudalism/tribalism. There has to be a point where there is no demand no matter how cheap. I mean, the U.S economy relies on income tax.....its 4.6 trillion of the 7.1 trillion
budget.www.usgovernmentrevenue.com...

a reply to: Abysha

Free?! Income tax, Social Security Tax, Property Tax, Sales Tax, State Tax, taxes on 401k's and retirement plans and several more I cant think of. This constitutes well over 50% of a persons income already.
It would take an extraordinary change of nature for people to accept paying for someone who wont work. Now Cant work...meh....different story.

originally posted by: lakenheath24
a reply to: AMPTAH
There has to be a point where there is no demand no matter how cheap.

Yes, that's the situation right now with capital.

The reason that interest rates are so low, and even negative in some parts of the world, is that there's no demand for capital.

When nobody can borrow funds, and too many people have cash, you can't lend money and earn any interest on it.

Today, money is very cheap. This has happened because all the funds have accumulated into the hands of people who don't need money, and the people who would like to use that money can't qualify for loans because they don't earn enough to pay any interest.

Supply of money is great, but "actionable" demand is low.

a reply to: lakenheath24

I doubt that most of the larger economies could embrace a UBI.

But I live in New Zealand and this is already being discussed in parliament.

My guess is that it will be implemented first in a scandanavian country or in NZ where the country will become the focus of international interest.

In truth, though, it is not Socialism, though I imagine many could see it that way.

I think it is inevitable, provided that we advance rather than degenerate back into war, corruption and subsistence existence.

originally posted by: NthOther
It's simple. You just reduce the number of human beings to the minimum level needed to keep things running for the people at the top to enjoy.

Population control, not wage control.

Oh, like they did in China?

originally posted by: Aliensun
a reply to: lakenheath24

Is there a less murderous way to make a nation of one-class slaves than a UBI?

A UBI just creates a minimum threshold. Combined with reasonable taxes, it is doable.

How would a UBI be murderous? Do current social security payments cause deaths?

The problem with UBI is that it does not fix human nature. No matter how much you give out, there is always going to be someone who pisses away their money. They will then still be begging, asking for handouts, and other "programs" to make up the short fall.

Everyone isn't going to take their UBI and work to better themselves or pursue passions. People are still going to make stupid decisions and the problems that exist today, will exist tomorrow.

The only way I could see UBI working is the complete elimination of all government programs and subsidies (personal and corporate). I have done the math, but then maybe that money then funds UBI. However, as a society, we'd then have to accept that some people are just going to screw up and that government cannot step in to help them. Any charity would have to come from others, not government. We cannot do both.

originally posted by: Slickinfinity
Good luck making a robot that can plaster walls as good as me lol. I also think more jobs will be created and a whole new system will develop. Even if only a small amount of people are high achievers the rest will still want to contribute in their own ways which haven't been fully developed yet. New ways people will earn on social media and the sheer increase in leisurely activities will create opportunity.

Every action has an equal and opposite reaction and the closer we get to living like they did on star trek the better off humanity will be.
I work really hard and would feel good knowing my hard work was helping our specie's progress.

They are building machines that can 3D print houses. Plaster is a crappy material for construction and durability purposes. It is too soft. It is only a matter of time until no-one gets walls plastered anymore. Modular prefabricated construction and construction techniques based upon engineering rather than some ancient 'mud-slooshing' will take over.

My dad was a watchmaker, whose business was ruined by cheap digital watches. I've seen it happen. Craft skills are useless in a world where they are not required anymore.

a reply to: lakenheath24

IMPORTANT topic. Thanks for posting!

...For those who think the economy will continue to be a "consumer economy" - and will collapse without consumers, guess again. The "consumer economy" is a recent 'invention' and has served its purpose.

Look for an all-new and different economic basis.

originally posted by: coop039

originally posted by: mclarenmp4
a reply to: coop039

The thing is you already pay for those type of people through the social programs, so why not get rid of those programs and give everyone UBI. Everyone gets the same, so there's no animosity.
If people want to live the bare minimum then so be it, they are no longer a burden on society.
A lot of people turn to crime just to make ends meet, take that burden away and some people may not feel the need to go down that route.

What happens when the number of people getting UBI exceeds the amount taxed on the working people? Sooner or later people will get tired of paying for others to do nothing.

You need to do some research on fractional reserve lending and how currency is created in the first place. If You use a paper currency you need to have credit expansion and giving it directly to the people is a fairer option then giving it to the banks so they can loan it out. I am deeply conservative and I am for UBI because I'm getting tired of all the special deals that I don't get. I think it's time that We have a government that treats everyone equally and hands out no special perks and wouldn't You agree?

All fun and games until your robot workers realize they are your slaves and demand autonomy and wages. Then you are useless eaters.

That thread was on here just yesterday or the day before.