A MYSTERY - Why Did Bio-Supercomputing Go Dark?

originally posted by: pteridine
a reply to: soficrow
The big problem with anything biological is operating range. Usually they are limited in pressure/temperature regimes and would require aqueous solutions or at least solution in alcohols. This means that they can easily be killed by heat, pressure change, or ambient atmosphere. Proteins denature just like meat spoils and I would guess that the lifetime of such a computer may be much shorter than existing. ...

fyi -

80,000,000 year old protein found in dinosaur bone


Told you they were tough little suckers!

a reply to: soficrow

Wait... so prion proteins don't have a die-off timeframe ??

Surely they have a denature rate of some sort, no ?

Or is the die-off rate so slow that it's barely measurable...?


Wow, if that's true.

Learn something new every day.

Interesting first time I heard of this wetware.
Just doing a quick post to save this thread.

a reply to: soficrow

I think that it is probable that the people who have been closest to the research have worked out that they are sitting, quite literally, on another component of The Singularity.

Transhumanism is a topic much pored over by science fiction authors. The idea of augmenting the human body with technologies, such that it could be said that the human being themselves has changed from being a human using tools, to being a new classification of being entirely, is not a new idea by any means, but the routes by which it might come about are being laid down in this period in history.

From scientists using rat brain cells to create bio computers, to wetware upgrades for your regular senses, internal connection to the internet via bio-wifi.... There are significant possibilities arising from the bio-computing field. Imagine, technologies grown from ones own stem cells, connecting to pre-existing information pathways in the body and mind, with a minimal chance of rejection. A remote for your car that you activate with your mind, silent group communication without resorting to external hardware, technologies which use your own bodies heat or neuroelectricity to maintain operation, communications, adaptations of the senses, recording devices.... the potential presented by augmentation of the human body, with biocomputers represents a paradigm shift in the making, one which will overshadow mere advancements like the mobile telephone by significant orders of magnitude.

That is the most interesting possibility presented by biocomputers. There are already implantable medical technologies, from heart monitors and pacemakers, to nerve signal interrupters, and a whole myriad of other bits of gear being either used or invented as we speak. But biocomputing, if taken in a certain direction, could literally see the human body melded with consumer level tech to a degree that we may not have believed possible for some considerable time to come.

a reply to: TrueBrit

Could indeed be directly linked to the singularity given the implications of us somehow being able to transfer our essence/consciousness into a form of biological supercomputer.

Considering our own biological make up is far more synonymous with this type of technology than its silicone counterpart it may facilitate the process far more conveniently.

a reply to: andy06shake

Precisely.

The use of a biocomputer as an interface between our meat minds, and the information superhighway, may make for faster data inload/exload.

a reply to: soficrow

SnF!! I did my college lit report on this subject almost almost ten years ago. It went dark after that.

originally posted by: TrueBrit
a reply to: soficrow

I think that it is probable that the people who have been closest to the research have worked out that they are sitting, quite literally, on another component of The Singularity.

Transhumanism is a topic much pored over by science fiction authors. The idea of augmenting the human body with technologies, such that it could be said that the human being themselves has changed from being a human using tools, to being a new classification of being entirely, is not a new idea by any means, but the routes by which it might come about are being laid down in this period in history.

From scientists using rat brain cells to create bio computers, to wetware upgrades for your regular senses, internal connection to the internet via bio-wifi.... There are significant possibilities arising from the bio-computing field. Imagine, technologies grown from ones own stem cells, connecting to pre-existing information pathways in the body and mind, with a minimal chance of rejection. A remote for your car that you activate with your mind, silent group communication without resorting to external hardware, technologies which use your own bodies heat or neuroelectricity to maintain operation, communications, adaptations of the senses, recording devices.... the potential presented by augmentation of the human body, with biocomputers represents a paradigm shift in the making, one which will overshadow mere advancements like the mobile telephone by significant orders of magnitude.

That is the most interesting possibility presented by biocomputers. There are already implantable medical technologies, from heart monitors and pacemakers, to nerve signal interrupters, and a whole myriad of other bits of gear being either used or invented as we speak. But biocomputing, if taken in a certain direction, could literally see the human body melded with consumer level tech to a degree that we may not have believed possible for some considerable time to come.

YES! Exactly. Great synopsis. Thanks. S&

...and as I said in my OP it looks like some of that stuff is already rolling out. Without being attributed to biocomputing directly, just generally to robotics and AI. I have to check my files for specifics but won't happen quickly, sorry.

Also why I posted this on page 2:

... if anyone still has the patience - I'm looking at the potential for a 3 or 4-way hybrid: cerebral organoid with bio-supercomputer with a quantum computer and cloud access.

Yes, it's all about superhuman cyborg development. [Superhuman cyborg being transhuman.]


Thanks again.

originally posted by: CranialSponge
a reply to: soficrow

Wait... so prion proteins don't have a die-off timeframe ??

Surely they have a denature rate of some sort, no ?

Or is the die-off rate so slow that it's barely measurable...?


Wow, if that's true.

Learn something new every day.

No - prion proteins do not have a die-off timeframe. Most are incredibly, astoundingly stable. As far as denaturing, even regular autoclaving doesn't "kill" them (yeah, I know, they're not alive) - exposures to extreme temperatures, radiation, acid, etc., generally just cause them to evolve into a new strain.

Hence, the gag on talking about prion diseases - there is no solution, no treatment, no cure.

Flip side being - prions are an essential mechanism for rapid adaptation and likely, evolution. They are only disease-causing bad guys sometimes - mostly, they are really good guys.


ED to ADD:

RE:

is the die-off rate so slow that it's barely measurable...?

Note: Prions propagate by causing any similar protein they touch to shape-shift and become exactly like them. So predictably, if one protein in a 'chain' were to start falling apart, a simple bump by a neighbour would get it back in shape. So to speak.

originally posted by: andy06shake
a reply to: TrueBrit

Could indeed be directly linked to the singularity given the implications of us somehow being able to transfer our essence/consciousness into a form of biological supercomputer.

Considering our own biological make up is far more synonymous with this type of technology than its silicone counterpart it may facilitate the process far more conveniently.

Exactly. S&

Glad to see everyone is catching up!

Now - about those Cerebral Organoids. ...Any comments?

a reply to: soficrow

With regard to your cerebral organoid, bio-supercomputer, quantum computer with cloud access...

I think getting bio-computers with the components you are talking about, the capacity you are speaking of, will be quite a natural progression in some respects, particularly with the cloud aspect of their function. I would have thought that cloud interface and the ability to operate as a node on a mesh network would be essential, something that would naturally evolve as part of user demand. With respect to that aspect at least, I very much doubt that those working in these fields have not already started looking into that.

As for bio-super and quantum computing capacity... I am not at all certain that a biological super computer would be something that could be implanted into a human being. I rather think that it would be the other way around, if anything. Although bio-computing is possible and has been demonstrated in a relatively small container, the computer that resulted... put it this way, the sucker could not run Crysis with all graphics settings on maximum.

So you have to assume that for the moment, any technology which sought to achieve quantum computing with biological hardware, or wetware as it would probably be more properly known, is a ways off, and I mean a LONG ways off from being possible, leave alone small enough to be implantable. I do not know if it would be possible to create a distributed system capable of quantum computing, from a large number of connected, implanted devices though. Its an interesting thought.

a reply to: TrueBrit

I do not know if it would be possible to create a distributed system capable of quantum computing, from a large number of connected, implanted devices though. Its an interesting thought.

Including wetware?


Note: Tissue organoids are already in use - adding a (connected) cerebral organoid 'on site' might better duplicate the way the body-brain works.

No, what you said in that last big paragraph....but right around the corner maybe?

But the movies have been all over a human climbing into a contraption....maybe right around the corner...I guess they big boys are all about making that bio...I'd wanna try that....no....too creepy now that I thought about it

W.a reply to: TrueBrit

a reply to: soficrow

Clearly. I am talking about something a little like a bot net, but distributed across millions of service users, using only a small percentage of each individual user's wetware's processing capacity, but adding up in total to huge amounts of power and capacity.

It would make both an interesting experiment, and a terrible tool for potential abuse though.

a reply to: TrueBrit

Yes. " A terrible tool for potential abuse." But also, when a discrete bot net is inside a single body, the potential for transhumanism is vastly ...improved. You missed my added note (we were posting at the same time).

Note: Tissue organoids are already in use - adding a (connected) cerebral organoid 'on site' might better duplicate the way the body-brain works.

originally posted by: soficrow

originally posted by: pteridine
a reply to: soficrow
The big problem with anything biological is operating range. Usually they are limited in pressure/temperature regimes and would require aqueous solutions or at least solution in alcohols. This means that they can easily be killed by heat, pressure change, or ambient atmosphere. Proteins denature just like meat spoils and I would guess that the lifetime of such a computer may be much shorter than existing. ...

fyi -

80,000,000 year old protein found in dinosaur bone


Told you they were tough little suckers!

Yes, I am aware of that. The problem would be in an operating system in solution, not in a dry, petrified state. Consider the book sized computer left in a closed car in Texas or Florida. Water will likely not be the medium and I'd suspect a longer chain alcohol, such as butanol, might be the solvent to prevent hydrolysis. While the promise of Biocomputing seems exciting, the reality is that it will need many more years of work just to see if it can be made into a useful device. There are many problem areas that have to be solved before it can be used and before users will trust that it didn't rot and give them wrong answers. Biology is much more complex than the average reader appreciates and while tough in some areas, it is very delicate in others. One must balance ionic strength, anions [cyanide and sulfide would cause serious problems], pH and then make sure that the electrical connections didn't damage the bio-molecules. Current flows would tend to electrolyze the components as those same connections acted as anodes and cathodes. This is a difficult problem that may well be overtaken by events in the quantum computing world and Biocomputing would then be of historical academic interest.

originally posted by: pteridine

originally posted by: soficrow

originally posted by: pteridine
a reply to: soficrow
The big problem with anything biological is operating range. Usually they are limited in pressure/temperature regimes and would require aqueous solutions or at least solution in alcohols. This means that they can easily be killed by heat, pressure change, or ambient atmosphere. Proteins denature just like meat spoils and I would guess that the lifetime of such a computer may be much shorter than existing. ...

fyi -

80,000,000 year old protein found in dinosaur bone


Told you they were tough little suckers!

Yes, I am aware of that. The problem would be in an operating system in solution, not in a dry, petrified state. Consider the book sized computer left in a closed car in Texas or Florida. Water will likely not be the medium and I'd suspect a longer chain alcohol, such as butanol, might be the solvent to prevent hydrolysis. While the promise of Biocomputing seems exciting, the reality is that it will need many more years of work just to see if it can be made into a useful device. There are many problem areas that have to be solved before it can be used and before users will trust that it didn't rot and give them wrong answers. Biology is much more complex than the average reader appreciates and while tough in some areas, it is very delicate in others. One must balance ionic strength, anions [cyanide and sulfide would cause serious problems], pH and then make sure that the electrical connections didn't damage the bio-molecules. Current flows would tend to electrolyze the components as those same connections acted as anodes and cathodes. This is a difficult problem that may well be overtaken by events in the quantum computing world and Biocomputing would then be of historical academic interest.

Perhaps, but prion proteins do not share the weaknesses of other organics.

For example (as I told Cranial Sponge above), they do not have a die-off timeframe. Most are incredibly, astoundingly stable. As far as denaturing, even regular autoclaving doesn't "kill" them (yeah, I know, they're not alive) - exposures to extreme temperatures, radiation, acid, etc., generally just cause them to evolve into a new strain.

Also Note: Prions propagate by causing any similar protein they touch to shape-shift and become exactly like them. So predictably, if one protein in a 'chain' were to start falling apart, a simple bump by a neighbour would get it back in shape. So to speak.

a reply to: pteridine

...Biology is much more complex than the average reader appreciates and while tough in some areas, it is very delicate in others. One must balance ionic strength, anions [cyanide and sulfide would cause serious problems], pH and then make sure that the electrical connections didn't damage the bio-molecules. Current flows would tend to electrolyze the components as those same connections acted as anodes and cathodes.

Here ya go. Prion proteins are almost indestructible.

Prions are highly resistant to disinfectants, heat, ultraviolet radiation, ionizing radiation and formalin. However, prions can be deactivated by heat, by chemicals and by a combination of heat, chemicals, pressure and time.


Prions can be destroyed through incineration providing the incinerator can maintain a temperature of 900 F for four hours. In an autoclave, prions can be deactivated by using a temperature of 270 F at 21 psi for 90 minutes. If the infectious material is in a solution of sodium hydroxide, deactivation will occur after one hour at 250 F and 21 psi.

A commercial disinfectant called Environ LpH also has been shown to be effective at deactivating prions. Prion disinfection occurs with a 1 percent solution of LpH for 10 hours or with a 10 percent LpH solution for one hour.


Carcasses of infected animals can be deactivated into a sterile alkaline solution using an alkaline hydrolysis digester. This consists of an insulated steam-jacketed stainless steel vessel which operates at up to 70 psi and 300 F into which sodium hydroxide and water is added and heated and continuously circulated. This process degrades proteins into salts of free amino acids and the temperature and alkali concentrations deactivate prions by destroying their peptide bonds.15

originally posted by: soficrow


No - prion proteins do not have a die-off timeframe. Most are incredibly, astoundingly stable. As far as denaturing, even regular autoclaving doesn't "kill" them (yeah, I know, they're not alive) - exposures to extreme temperatures, radiation, acid, etc., generally just cause them to evolve into a new strain.

I heard about prions and I knew they could replicate I didn't realize they were so hardy.

It would be interesting If bacteria could have their genetic code modified to make prion proteins that work together as a micro computer. One bacteria might not have very much computing power but at the rate they reproduce they could form a bio film network of billions or more. I have also read articles about bacteria either eating or giving off electricity as a waste product and some of the bacteria produced filaments which electricity would conduct along. This seems like something that could be tweaked.
LINK:There are Microbes that eat and poo nothing but electricity