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Ok. Gen 16:11, Gen 25:21-22, Hosea 12:3, and Romans 9:10-11 are all taken out of context as they emphasize God's divine plan of predestination.
"With child" (Gen 16:11) or 'harah' in Hebrew literally means to conceive. It does not in any way indicate that a fetus has a living soul.
Jacob and Esau did not consciously struggle in the womb, it was just the movement of the biomechanical flesh. To rectify that, look at Exodus 21:22
Exodus 21:22 “And if men struggle with each other and strike a woman with child so that she has a miscarriage, yet there is no further injury, he shall surely be fined as the woman’s husband may demand of him; and he shall pay as the judges decide.
If a woman miscarries without additional damage, there is no penalty for murder. If the woman dies, then there is a death penalty. God did not view a fetus as having a living soul. Why???? Because the soul is the breath of life (Gen 2:7). Adam was not alive until God breathed life into his soulless body. The woman in Exo 22:21 is the subject, and the fight, resulting in damages, is the predicate. Therefore injury inflicted upon the woman is the issue, never the fetus.
Lets look at NT now. Luke 1:15
"for he shall be great before the Lord, and wine and strong drink he may not drink, and of the Holy Spirit he shall be full, even from his mother's womb"
ἔσται γὰρ μέγας ἐνώπιον Κυρίου, καὶ οἶνον καὶ σίκερα οὐ μὴ πίῃ, καὶ Πνεύματος Ἁγίου πλησθήσεται ἔτι ἐκ κοιλίας μητρὸς αὐτοῦ
John the Baptist was not filled with the Holy Spirit while in the womb. He was filled after LEAVING THE WOMB as indicated by the NEW TESTAMENT Greek Preposition, ek (ἐκ).
By the way, in Psalm 22:9-10, the key word in both verses is mibbaten (מִבָּ֑טֶן). Just as in the case of Luke 1:15, the prefix min (מִ) is a preposition that means, outside of. So David is talking about how God took him out from the womb. Why would that be important to mention? Again, Gen 2:7, God always breathes the breath of life into soulless flesh. There is never a soul in an embryo at conception, nor in a fetus during gestation. At least the Bible doesn't teach that.
Isaiah 44:2, as you so zealously cited,is the exact same case as Psalm 22:9-10. Yet again, it is emphasized that God created us (our souls) OUTSIDE OF THE WOMB (mibbeten מִבֶּ֖טֶן). Obviously its not talking about our bodies, as dying flesh begins its biological development WITHIN THE WOMB, but soul and spirit are not flesh, and therefore cannot be formed by gestation. Only God can create soul and spirit.
originally posted by: worldstarcountry
This proposal applies to ANY State or Federal jurisdiction, whichever jurisdiction it gets relegated to.
First off, I believe that the choice to kill unborn babies, literally the most vulnerable segment of the human race, requires the consent of both creators. But I will write in some clauses on that as well. I throwing my own title into it, but I think the lawmakers will probably come up with something better anyways.
So without further a due , here are my proposals:
Resolution to Re-Define Early Termination of Unborn Humans Act (The name is a work in progress, and subject to change)
Introduction
In an effort to curb the rampant immorality of our people in God's eyesIn an effort to curb dangerous and irresponsible behavior, as well as take into account the rights of the father which have been ignored and neglected for generations, new restrictions on the termination of unborn life shall hereby be in effect.
A new maximum allowance of one termination of life per annum will hereby go into effect, with the exception of waivers outlined in section one.
Section 1]:No citizen of the USA may seek to have more than the authorized maximum allowance for termination of life in a given year, with the following exceptions noted:
- (a)the delivery of the child may cause undue hardships, stresses, injury, or fatality to either the mother or child
- (b)a diagnosis for a terminal illness, or genetic defect has been identified which would severely limit and/or impair the quality of life of the child
- (c)the conception was the product of rape or incest
- (d)the mother falls into a coma that may complicate delivery. In which case the decision to terminate will fall to the father if present, or the legal guardian, and then to executor of estate.
- (e)the mother will be entering or is already incarcerated into prison for the duration of the pregnancy, at which point she may choose termination
Penalties outlined in Section 4
Section 2]No woman, without the consent of the father who's genetic code makes up 50% of the conceived life, may carry out the termination of an unborn human life without the consent of the father , with exception to the following life situations:
- (a)the woman has no clue who the father is or may be,
- (b)the father has waived his parental rights to make a decision in the fate of his child,
- (c)the father is absentee and has abandoned his duties as a parent,t
- (d)the father has any existing domestic violence convictions against the mother
- (e)the father is incarcerated at any point during the pregnancy
- (f)the father has been committed to psychiatric care at any point during his life or declared mentally deficit, even upon being cleared to re-renter society
- (g)the father is registered as a sex offender
- (h)the father is in a medical state, such as a coma, and is unable to make his wishes known, unless before entering such state, has had his wishes for the child known by way of a legal and notarized writ on file.
Penalties outlined in Section 4
Section 3] No government agency or jurisdiction or private interest has the authority to order forced sterilization upon any woman against her will, or intervene in the voluntary choice by a woman to become sterilized. NO EXCEPTIONS
Section 4]Criminal Penalties
Nobody is guilt of a crime by seeking consultation with a physician, religious figure, friend, family, or legal counsel on termination of life.
If a termination of life is medically documented beyond the established per annum limit and does not fall within the exceptions highlighted in Section 2, the individual is guilty of a first degree misdemeanor, punishable by up to 1 year in prison, and a maximum fine of ten thousand dollars ($10,000). Any medical professional who assists in the execution of a termination of life beyond the per annum limit is guilty of a third degree felony punishable by up to five years in prison, a maximum imposed fine of up to $250,000, and may risk losing their certification to practice medicine.
originally posted by: BELIEVERpriest
I believe the soul enters the human body at birth...
originally posted by: Mousygretchen
a reply to: BELIEVERpriest
You need to get off your high horse.
Women are going to find ways to abort their fetuses no matter how you feel about it.
YOu are sooooo wrong.
originally posted by: MotherMayEye
originally posted by: BELIEVERpriest
I believe the soul enters the human body at birth...
Bizarre and arbitrary beliefs that have no substantive foundation. Truly a disservice to your cause.
Going on 'belief,' alone... no one's belief reigns supreme. Let's all agree to disagree...that's about the best that can come of this topic.
originally posted by: knowledgehunter0986
a reply to: BELIEVERpriest
This is a judgment for "god" to make..
I don't think anyone can tell another person what to do with thier body..
Trump and Co. appear to be hardliner Christian fundies, and since abortion has been a hot topic since the 60's, what's next? Is legislation going to be passed to prosecute women who get abortions??? Are we going to start executing them???
originally posted by: MotherMayEye
originally posted by: BlueAjah
The penalty for abortion should be eternity in hell.
Of course.
Signed, God?
I just don't think anything is so plain right or wrong.