Teachers union stuffs student backpacks with flyer attacking Trump nominee

originally posted by: paradoxious
Issuing vouchers parents use to move their student(s) to other schools somehow is doing what now?
Directing money for the student to the school the student attends?
And that is bad?

Oh, 'cause it takes money away from the failing public school systems.

What it actually does is force public schools to compete and for the teachers to do their jobs.

That sounds horrible to most teachers who get tenure and glide by doing as little as possible.

I'm glad they are scared - but their efforts will fail, and they will soon either have to work or get another job.

originally posted by: TarzanBeta
Schenectady is 20 minutes away from me.

Let me tell you a little about it:

Nobody wants to live there.

Take the tiniest and worst part of Chicago and plant it between Albany and Saratoga... Voila, Schenectady.

The only people with a worse education around these parts are from Schuylerville - but at least they have good farms.

The teachers there don't even want to be there. Of course they will lie about accidentally dropping flyers into backpacks.

Maybe they're afraid they might have to actually start teaching their students in order to get paid?

I just noticed something. The two towns around here with the worst education start with "Sch". Well, so does "school".

Is it just me, or is there a pattern? Maybe anything starting with "sch" offers a poor education.

a reply to: TarzanBeta

That's the sad thing. We used to have a very, very good public school before we had a DoE. After that was formed, our ability to educate publicly went downhill or stayed stagnant no matter how much money was poured into the system.

Now, that isn't likely the only factor. I'm sure the so-called Great Society War on Poverty played its own role by helping to erode the inner city family which leads to so many fatherless families and kids who don't want to learn.

But maybe it's time to loosen restrictions up enough to let schools find out what works on their own instead of trying to impose a top down one-size-fits-all approach.

a reply to: CryptoXparaMental

So you're an elitist who thinks only certain people deserve an education. The rest are just worthless human beings not worthy of anyone's time or energy in improving their lives. Where those with wealth, status and privilege get more privilege and those without it get marginalized and become second class citizens.

That's what it sounds like you're saying.

originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: TarzanBeta

That's the sad thing. We used to have a very, very good public school before we had a DoE. After that was formed, our ability to educate publicly went downhill or stayed stagnant no matter how much money was poured into the system.

Now, that isn't likely the only factor. I'm sure the so-called Great Society War on Poverty played its own role by helping to erode the inner city family which leads to so many fatherless families and kids who don't want to learn.

But maybe it's time to loosen restrictions up enough to let schools find out what works on their own instead of trying to impose a top down one-size-fits-all approach.

It began to slide way downhill in the 70's. What happened?

a reply to: ketsuko

I agree with a lot of what you're saying actually. I also think those are great points you've made.

That still doesn't make DeVos a good choice. I think you know more about education than she does. She's not an educator, has never been to a public school, never sent her kids to one, knows nothing about the education system or teaching. The reason she's there is because she's been pushing for private schools, of a Religious Agenda and has given millions to the party. She's not qualified and doesn't give a damn about anyone who can't afford higher education.

The fact is she's going to be in charge of Public Schools to some degree even if she's planning on not having them exist anymore. She has no idea what the normal average person has to deal with trying to educate their kids and what that's like. None of these billionaires do. Not one of them understands the lives of millions of people in this country. Not you, or me, or the guy next door. So how the hell are they going to help the majority of people if they can't even identify with their lives???

originally posted by: TarzanBeta

I just noticed something. The two towns around here with the worst education start with "Sch". Well, so does "school".

Is it just me, or is there a pattern? Maybe anything starting with "sch" offers a poor education.

Blistering Irony !!

a reply to: mOjOm

No, I am not an elitist. Just someone that called you out on utter BS, and to lament a little with regard to the relative failed and disease like destructive effect of liberal social engineering.

"public schools have their money taken away and it goes to private schools"

I guess by your logic we are all supposed to believe that School is simply a socially determined reward, or perhaps a punishment, as so many misinformed children tend to believe. Those are real descriptive attributes for what people receive as a matter of what they "deserve". No, an education is definitely not a matter of what anyone deserves. Nor is it an inherent right. Nor is it an entitlement. It is an absolute privilege that parents, or an acting parental authority, should most assuredly be responsible for. Are you familiar with the concept of "personal responsibility"? As a social ideal, it's a basic concept that the liberal engineers seem to know very little about. They rarely include it within the scheme of their plans. Kind of goes hand in hand with the mindlessness that their best laid planes routinely cultivate and further perpetuate.

a reply to: mOjOm

No one is saying she doesn't want them to not exist anymore.

I think she is advocating for far more state control of public systems along with a system more like what they have in some European countries where the money the state spends on the student follows the student regardless of where the child goes to school instead of the student being trapped into one school designated by zip code like we have. It is up to the parents to decide which school that will be.

The schools then compete to draw in students with their money. That means some offer differing programs of study like magnets or some might be more like military schools. Yes, some might be religious schools, and some look a lot like our public schools. They offer different extracurriculars and some do and don't offer transportation. All of this is to make themselves attractive to parents and students.

If they are doing a good job, they attract more students and funds. If they do a crappy job, they don't. All of them must maintain certain standards in order to exist.

But what it comes down to is that there is currently little impetus for failing schools to do much to change now because they are guaranteed a student base as it is. There is always going to be so much money they will be getting because the students are trapped into having to attend by law. It doesn't matter really how well or not the school actually does the job it is supposed to do.

a reply to: CryptoXparaMental

I guess we just see it differently then. You think only certain people deserve an education where as I think as a society we are all better off having our populace educated.

There are still higher and better schools out there for those that have the money to buy a better education. But I guess I see value in having everyone pitch in to help the less fortunate too.

I mean we can spend billions and billions on killing each other and wasting money in amounts too large to even count. So pitching in to help society over all doesn't seem like too much to ask IMO.

a reply to: ketsuko

Well, I guess we'll find out soon enough since she's in charge of it all now.

originally posted by: queenofswords

originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: TarzanBeta

That's the sad thing. We used to have a very, very good public school before we had a DoE. After that was formed, our ability to educate publicly went downhill or stayed stagnant no matter how much money was poured into the system.

Now, that isn't likely the only factor. I'm sure the so-called Great Society War on Poverty played its own role by helping to erode the inner city family which leads to so many fatherless families and kids who don't want to learn.

But maybe it's time to loosen restrictions up enough to let schools find out what works on their own instead of trying to impose a top down one-size-fits-all approach.

It began to slide way downhill in the 70's. What happened?

The 70's.

a reply to: mOjOm

Anytime, and this goes for any social systematic application whatsoever, the social system in play ceases to mirror nature, and natural process, that system is unequivocally doomed to failure. Immediately divisiveness comes into play and plunder as whatever premeditated agenda unfolds. One can get away with feigning the social ideal that the condition can be removed from the animal, but no one can escape beyond pretense the animal being removed from the condition.

Do not be fooled in the name of charitable mindedness, no matter how in step with contemporary fashion it may seem. The favorable appearance of well organized progressive conquest is likened to a society of weary travelers suddenly finding themselves on a road which is velvet curbed, and paved with gold. It's dazzling and quickly fills everyone with fateful hope. Right up until they round that final bend all wide eyed and realize that those definitely aren't the gates to the kingdom of Oz quickly drawing nearer. What is that godawful smell? And just who the heck is that guy way up there with the big pitchfork?

a reply to: CryptoXparaMental

Well that certainly was dramatic.

I think that is a bit broad also to say that no social system whatsoever is capable of success. We are after all social creatures and will always create a society of some kind with each other just like we always have. They are always successful for a time but break down and have to be redone again and again. But like all things even society breaks down over time so that is expected.

I wouldn't call this a failure however. Just that from time to time our systems need some restructuring. Unlike nature we don't create perfect systems so ours need constant energy input to keep them functioning. This I think is acceptable for what we get in return. To simply throw up our hands and not try would be a true failure however. At that point we really would be like any other animal and would no longer be worthy of the talents we possess.