Teachers union stuffs student backpacks with flyer attacking Trump nominee

A lot of school funds are tied up trying to get students who can't speak english and write english to do so. It is tying up a large amount of funds.

The last person I want to run a cabinet person is a teacher. Whiners who aim at mediocrity in life, who were not on average smart enough to cut it in most other other degrees.

We don't have a teaching problem, white kids score the same as german kids on PISA scores, considering US whites are mainly germanic peoples makes sense.
We have a specific problem, well two problems. The problem of non-english speaking children in mainly Cali and Texas, and the problem of law and order inside inner city schools. Those two issues suck up a lot of funds.
Better teachers tend to flee districts with these problems.

Schenectady is 20 minutes away from me.

Let me tell you a little about it:

Nobody wants to live there.

Take the tiniest and worst part of Chicago and plant it between Albany and Saratoga... Voila, Schenectady.

The only people with a worse education around these parts are from Schuylerville - but at least they have good farms.

The teachers there don't even want to be there. Of course they will lie about accidentally dropping flyers into backpacks.

Maybe they're afraid they might have to actually start teaching their students in order to get paid?

a reply to: ketsuko

There still needs to be public schools since not every student can go to a private school. Private schools fill up and are often "selective" as who they allow in as well. But we won't go into that part. The vouchers are also determined by certain requirements as well. But these are all subtle ways in how it can be manipulated.

But basically it's a system once again that end up rewarding the wealthy by separating everyone by who can pay for better schools. Which we already have anyway. This just increases the division and end up taking public fund (taxes) and giving them to private schools. But private schools should be getting their funding from Private sources, the people going there. They shouldn't come from the pool of tax dollars that support public schooling. That money is for Public Schools not private ones. This takes money from Public Services and give them to Private Services.

a reply to: mOjOm

It is every bit about the Unions. And it is not true as far as all children cannot go to a charter school. This is what the voucher program is all about, the opportunity for every child to attend a school of their choice, private and charter are not the same thing. Charter schools are run by some corporate entities but many are run the communities in which they are formed by Charters.

Do I have concerns, certainly as some organizations that are operating the Charter schools are attempting to do so at a profit which is wrong, however the Unions have been running schools for profit since they Unionized them in the form of Teachers Union Dues....so they can lobby and give the union leaders big paychecks.

NO ONE, Republican nor Democrat has done anything in regards to our failing schools both private, charter nor public failures, at least a discussion has begun and maybe just maybe it will startle the politicians into actually doing something...if Unions are so worried about the funding leaving the school districts they represent then how about investing the millions they have wasted on lobbying towards educating children or at least improving it.

Its a drop in the bucket but lets face all sides have failed our children and it's time for a different approach and maybe Charter schools or a different approach at the public level is needed. The average national salary for teachers is around 44 thousand a year, the average salary for their union leaders whom do not teach our children average 250 thousand....no brainier

And Charter schools are free for all to attend, cannot discriminate of who attends....

www.greatschools.org...

I am divided on the issue of public school monies going to private schools...parents who want their children to attend private schools should pay but what about the misspent tax dollars they provide the Districts ? Should they be allowed to that money in the forum of a voucher to off set the expense of sending children to private schools....maaybe not, after all its a choice but charter schools are free

originally posted by: jellyrev
A lot of school funds are tied up trying to get students who can't speak english and write english to do so. It is tying up a large amount of funds.

The last person I want to run a cabinet person is a teacher. Whiners who aim at mediocrity in life, who were not on average smart enough to cut it in most other other degrees.

We don't have a teaching problem, white kids score the same as german kids on PISA scores, considering US whites are mainly germanic peoples makes sense.
We have a specific problem, well two problems. The problem of non-english speaking children in mainly Cali and Texas, and the problem of law and order inside inner city schools. Those two issues suck up a lot of funds.
Better teachers tend to flee districts with these problems.

I can tell you from experience. There are a LOT of crappy teachers in the public school system. There are a LOT of lazy teachers in the public schools system. There are a LOT of teachers that can barely speak English.

Public school teachers spend a LOT of time on behavioral issues with certain students while the students that are hungry to learn have to sit and wait while the crappy teacher tries to get the crappy students under control.

If it weren't for good parenting by families who truly are tuned in to their children and have a focused eye on their future, we would be worse off than we are now.

It is time for Big Changes. It is time to readjust to the 21st century. We have a woman at the helm that can do that. She has the smarts, the drive, the ambition, the pride, to get it done....just like the rest of The Perfect Team in this administration.

It is time the crappy teachers that are scared because they KNOW they have failed in a failed system, get with the program or start looking for something they are more qualified to do.

a reply to: queenofswords

What makes DeVos qualified for this position? It's a simple question no one has actually been able to answer.

For f***'s sake the woman couldn't even answer whether or not public schools should be required to enforce the Individuals with Disabilities Education Act, a federal law.

At this point I don't care if Trump nominates the most Right wing person imaginable to take over the DoE. At least have them be qualified in any way.

What can we say? The school system is a frickin huge mess... Public Education is a joke, and it's adding insult to injury, or injury to insult? Adding Injury and insult, to injury and insult, and multiplying by 2, to the 4th power...plus two and a half... carry the one and divide by the common denominator?... Basically it adds up to a whole lot of insult AND injury, when they threaten to take your children away from you if you don't allow the state to literally Take Your Children Away From You and do with them as they please for 8 hours a day, for 13 years out of the most impressionable ages of their life. It's nothing less/more than legalized Kidnapping and Indoctrination.

If I have a child, I should be able to go along with them ANYWHERE they go. Especially for such extended periods of time. In no circumstance should child and parent be required to be separated. And we do it everyday like it's normal. How is a child supposed to trust their parent when it's clear the parents are not the ones in control? It's like a shared custody arrangement. The biological parent gets to be the legal guardian half the time, and the State is the legal guardian the other half.

It's sickening. I'm lucky, very lucky, and glad, I haven't gotten any women pregnant. I think I must have a medical reason, like low sperm count, for example. Whatever it is, I am thankful. I might end up in prison, or move my family out to somewhere like Ruby Ridge and home school them. Yes I am aware homeschool is an option, but the parent, as far as I know, must have a teaching degree. Not necessarily difficult, but a tad expensive and very time consuming. It takes like, two years for that degree, right?

About 2 years to teach our children (ive seen approximately 20 year old high school teachers). 8-12 years to interpret the law and get corporations & politicians and others with wealth and power out of trouble by loopholes, while throwing innocent people away to prison over nothing, not to mention taking peoples children away from them and destroying families in family court and every other twisted activity lawyers are a part of. Our priorities, as a society, are completely outrageous and out of order...

a reply to: Xcalibur254

Anything I lay out in answer will be the exact same material you have read (if you have done any unbiased research at all).

In other words, our arguments really wind up just being a difference in how and why we believe the educational systems in this country are failing.

We have different perspectives. Different ideologies. Different philosophies. Different political leanings. Different viewpoints all the way around.

You will study what I study and have a totally different reaction.

It won't do any good. Just understand that there are going to be changes for the better. You won't see them that way at first, but the 21st century approach to education in our country is going to raise our standards.

Change is coming. Embrace it!

a reply to: Xcalibur254

She is responsible for Detroit's Charter schools system which has shown some gains albeit slow and small gains to the overall education of children in Detroit. Here is one article which compares one study with another and is far from praise but does seem to get at some of the truth.

www.nationalreview.com...

Is she the best qualified candidate ? Doubtful as their are others but she does have experience so its not a complete shot in the dark. I am ready to listen for other candidates but again both Republicans and Democrat have ignored the education systems for far too long, at least someone with a different approach is being considered. With that's said I hope we find the best available but since most education leaders are from both sides are hopelessly quagmired in the political arena it is doubtful we will ever see change or reform.

a reply to: DJMSN

And then you have this article that talks about how terrible schools are in Detroit.

Betsy DeVos and the twilight of public education

originally posted by: mOjOm
a reply to: BlueAjah

It's not about the unions. Even without a union the fact is that public schools have their money taken away and it goes to private schools of which not all students can go to.

All this does is take money away from tax payers who's kids will still go to public schools and give it to private schools. So what happens to their kids that still go to public schools??? They get nothing for their tax dollars that's what.

There will still be public schools, mostly for the poorer neighborhoods and poorer families and their tax dollars get no return on them.

Forgive me, what are you talking about? Nothing you stated here makes even a lick of sense. The very problem with institutional learning, the essence of the situation gone way wrong, is the fact that education is under valued. It is seen as being akin to drinking water instead of being seen as a privilege. Public schools have so trampled and mutilated the basic philosophical concept of what is an education that it has lost all meaning in terms of real value.

This is EXACTLY what we desperately need to get away from. Namely education as a basic right, instead of it being as it morally should be, a hard earned, bought and paid for, choice. One made by responsible human beings that deserve to have such a choice to begin with. Our schools are filled with useless riffraff emulating and mirroring their liberally perpetuated environmental illegitimacy.

The problem with any and all liberal utopian social engineering is that it seeks to give away, and thereby ultimately devalue, what are the undeniable virtues of the very human freewill draft having gone before them, as if it were a God given, or "out of the blue" right. Quite naturally, due to such an upside down perspective, they are the first to deny the rigid moral convictions of those which have responsibly and provisionally gone before them. They call this ignorance progress. They are led around and programmed by powers far greater than themselves that they never even attempt to accurately identify, or purposefully comprehend. Liberal engineers are like aimless sheep based on their instinct confused desires projecting a see, want, take, and distribute mentality. They are the epitome of social ruination.

originally posted by: jellyrev
A lot of school funds are tied up trying to get students who can't speak english and write english to do so. It is tying up a large amount of funds.

The last person I want to run a cabinet person is a teacher. Whiners who aim at mediocrity in life, who were not on average smart enough to cut it in most other other degrees.

We don't have a teaching problem, white kids score the same as german kids on PISA scores, considering US whites are mainly germanic peoples makes sense.
We have a specific problem, well two problems. The problem of non-english speaking children in mainly Cali and Texas, and the problem of law and order inside inner city schools. Those two issues suck up a lot of funds.
Better teachers tend to flee districts with these problems.

Yeah, well, when it comes to these types of "special circumstances" (can't call it a "problem" in this PC climate) we pretend like there are unlimited funds for it, because it's "such a wonderful thing that these poor children want to learn". Nevermind the children who are already here and ready to learn and who's parents and grandparents have been paying taxes for half a century or more in the hopes their children could receive a decent education... we can abandon them for these other special cases, because it makes a nice pretty special magical story: The kid who couldn't speak English strives to become something better for themselves.

Awww... how adorable! We have all the money in the world for something like That! It's racist to identify it as a problem. Who cares if everyone else is suffering? They already have it good enough anyway! They don't need an education on top of all that inherited privilege they already have!

I mean, yeah, their parents and grandparents and great grandparents worked their tails off for DECADES to give their decendants a better life...you know, the American Dream, but...now we just call the results of all that hard work "undeserved privilege", and our birthright is yanked out from under us and handed over to someone else who didn't do jack to deserve it other than break our laws, trample our constitution to be here, and take a big dump all over our culture, flag, language, and way of life on top of it all, calling us and our fathers and forefathers "racists" and "evil" and are taught by their parents to hate us.

Besides, we need more heart touching stories, That is what is important here when it comes to education! We could make some heartfelt movies about the underdog who succeeded against all odds, and you wanna take that away from us, just for "education"? Pshhh...



IF the State is gonna kidnap our kids, the least they could do is give them a proper education in a safe environment.

a reply to: Xcalibur254

I didn't say that there are not two sides. The article I supllied looked at an opposing study and then compared the "facts" they found. Hardly a lot of praise in the article. We have schools in Buffalo New York where 85 different languages are spoken. How do we deal with that ?

Schools everywhere are not doing what they are suppose to do as far as education so maybe a different approach of just approaching the problem at all is a direction we can go. I do not know this lady and will not vouch for her one way or the other but as far as qualifications, one she does possess is that she has been trying to do something....more than our politicians and the teacher unions who seem only to be concerned with getting more money and protecting teachers.

I don't have the answers but I do know if we do not do something different we are in some serious trouble

In their defense, Devos is a terrible nominee for Education. She's never even been in a public school. LOL

I'm just along for the ride ... but I think Common Core and No Child left behind were both terrible programs, so maybe she'll go in a different, better direction. All signs point to a bad direction though....I think she'll work to defund public schools.

On the surface, that sounds very libertarian and very good for all of us, until you consider that 90% of our children are educated in public schools. I run a business and my wife works full time, we have neither the time or money to homeschool or private educate them. That could be an issue.

Just what we need...dumber kids.

a reply to: Xcalibur254

Source? Schools receiving federal funding? Also, can you please enlighten me. What exactly is so progressive about "you did something I don't like, so now I'm going to do it too."

a reply to: amazing

So the progressive argument is "Our public schools are failing. Wait, this nominee hasn't been involved with public schools long enough!" When a company wants to change something that's failing, they don't promote from within it's ranks.

originally posted by: bender151
a reply to: amazing

So the progressive argument is "Our public schools are failing. Wait, this nominee hasn't been involved with public schools long enough!" When a company wants to change something that's failing, they don't promote from within it's ranks.

I love change from outside...With Davos, though she has indicated that she wants to defund and move us away from a public education system. That's not real helpful to the hundreds of millions of us that rely on it.

a reply to: amazing

Here is a quote from Betsy DeVos:

“This is not a battle of Left vs. Right, or Democrat vs. Republican. It’s a battle of Industrial Age vs. the Digital Age. It’s the Model T vs. the Tesla. It’s the old factory model vs. the new internet model. It’s the Luddites vs. the future.”

Read more here: www.forbes.com...

a reply to: mOjOm

And if every student had the money allocated by the state toward their education, most of them could financially qualify for many private and charter schools right there. Only the most exclusive of the private schools would still be out of reach.

In most inner city school districts, the state spends between $10 and $15K/student per year. That is easily enough to pay for most private school tuitions except for the most exclusive schools. At the school we are sending ours to, tuition till not exceed $10/year even when he is in high school.

Yes, I know vouchers can be manipulated. Even if they institute them, we likely won't qualify because we would likely make too much.

As for being selective, why should a private school be forced to take a child who refuses to behave to an acceptable standard or refuses to perform academically? And I am not talking about being incapable of it, I am talking about willfully not meeting the standards. I myself have one who is having trouble meeting the capability in one area due to fine motor delay and they aren't kicking him out for it because they understand why the trouble exists and we are working to correct the issue.

At some point, students have to take responsibility for their own choices or we as a society have to understand that maybe some kids don't need to be in a regular learning environment because they actively spoil it for the ones who do want to learn. That is one thing vouchers offer that the current system does not. It looks everyone up in the same asylum.

And I very much resent that I pay money over and above what I'm taxed because I care enough to try to get my child actually educated. Why shouldn't I be allowed to tap my tax dollars to put them to the purpose they were intended -- educating my child? Instead, they are wasted on a failing system while I spend several thousand more out of pocket to make sure the job actually gets done and is done properly.

Tell me how that isn't also creating a two tier system.