12yr old Commits Suicide and Streams it Live on Facebook

a reply to: Rosinitiate

I only share my own story to help people understand the larger issue of suicide. I don't seek sympathy or glory for myself - the past is the past.

Here are the most common reasons people try it

*The death of a loved one.
*A divorce, separation, or breakup of a relationship.
*Losing custody of children, or feeling that a child custody decision is not fair.
*A serious loss, such as a loss of a job, house, or money.
*A serious illness.
*A terminal illness.
*A serious accident.
*Chronic physical pain.
*Intense emotional pain.
*Loss of hope.
*Being victimized (domestic violence, rape, assault, etc).
*A loved one being victimized (child murder, child molestation, kidnapping, murder, rape, assault, etc.).
*Physical abuse.
*Verbal abuse.
*Sexual abuse.
*Unresolved abuse (of any kind) from the past.
*Feeling "trapped" in a situation perceived as negative.
*Feeling that things will never "get better."
*Feeling helpless.
*Serious legal problems, such as criminal prosecution or incarceration.
*Feeling "taken advantage of."
*Inability to deal with a perceived "humiliating" situation.
*Inability to deal with a perceived "failure."
*Alcohol abuse.
*Drug abuse.
*A feeling of not being accepted by family, friends, or society.
*A horrible disappointment.
*Feeling like one has not lived up to his or her high expectations or those of another.
*Bullying. (Adults, as well as children, can be bullied.)
*Low self-esteem.

www.suicide.org...

As you can see, it's a very complicated subject because of multiple possible motives.

I 100% agree with you about the person who sexually abused her though. I said in an earlier post that my own and very personal opinion is that the man who abused this girl needs to be arrested and charged with involuntary murder. His actions caused this.

originally posted by: PhyllidaDavenport

I must be a very old fashioned kinda parent. I forbid all 3 of my children from having computers in their bedrooms, we have no tv and haven't had for 20yrs, we all have a pc or laptop but they are all downstairs in the living room. We surf together lol but there is very little that they could view without me knowing about it. If I had ever caught one of them sexting or sending rude pics, they would be in some serious trouble! They used to get a bit mad but now they are all in their twenties and thirties they appreciate that we continued to be a family. If we wanted to watch something we streamed it onto a tv screen from one of the pcs and we ALL watched it. We ALL played online games together too so it was good fun.
Sticking your kids in their rooms with a computer and tv means a complete lack of knowledge about your child and a total separation in the family unit.

I wouldn't call you 'old fashioned' like my own daughter I'd call you *hands on

and caring* there aren't too many of you around ...... a rare breed.


She took a lot of stick over the years from both her children, and the parents

of her childrens friends for enforcing her lines in the sand, rules and morals,

without doubt it was hard work .... but its paid off, when she sees what all the

'special snowflakes' are up to now.

For whatever reason, this kiddie grew up way too fast I think

Yes far too fast....poor girl may she RIP.

a reply to: Cygnis

The below, quoted from you, is spot-on and should be mentioned a second time.

I check on several of my friends regularly, as i know they have issues. I think everyone should have someone they can do that with, talk with, without worrying about judgment, or chastisement. Hard to find that in this day and age.

Some are still looking for it, too.

Thank you for that astute observation and your take on 'having someone'.

originally posted by: PhyllidaDavenport
a reply to: Cygnis

And yet the sources report that her mother was calling her for some time and yet she didn't answer or cry for help to her mother.

I can only speculate, but I would assume at that point she didn't give a hoot what her mother was calling for. Just as much as her mother who was calling her with no response cared enough to get off her butt and go see why she wasn't answering. Depite her allowed, outward appearance, she's a twelve year-old.... That's very telling.

Maybe her parents didn't see her as a twelve year-old. In any case, if I were an investigator, I would like that answered in my pursuit of charges for child neglect and possible involuntary manslaughter.

As far as posting it live to social media, I'm not trying to downplay her pain, frustration or sense of hopelessness, I'm only going to say today's technology promotes and even rewards narcissistic behavior, i.e. selfies, vlogs, channels and sites dedicated completely to promote images of self. Social media where our youngsters are falsely believing anyone is a "star".

The "like" button has become this generations God.

No enough likes.....not enough self worth.

Just saying a life worth living isn't a life voted up or down for by others, mostly complete strangers. That needs to be understood by our youth and parents alike.

Prayers and condolences for her and her family.

a reply to: markosity1973

Indeed, I can see that being a heavy burden, especially on a young mind.

a reply to: EternalShadow

The crux of the matter, in any shape or form, whether it is likes on facebook, thumbs up on youtube, or even stars on posts here is: Everyone seeks affirmation from their fellow people.

The people who don't get good positive feedback IRL, tend to seek it online either by trying to be the hero in a game, or by getting likes and stars and thumbs up.

In a negative world, positive response is the drug of choice.

Hell, even I like seeing stars, or likes on my posts, who doesn't? The problem there is when they start to fade, or your not getting as many.. It's like MSM news ratings, gotta keep'em up there.

People tie these ratings to their self-worth, and self-image, sometimes to their own detriment.

originally posted by: Cygnis
a reply to: EternalShadow

The crux of the matter, in any shape or form, whether it is likes on facebook, thumbs up on youtube, or even stars on posts here is: Everyone seeks affirmation from their fellow people.

The people who don't get good positive feedback IRL, tend to seek it online either by trying to be the hero in a game, or by getting likes and stars and thumbs up.

In a negative world, positive response is the drug of choice.

Hell, even I like seeing stars, or likes on my posts, who doesn't? The problem there is when they start to fade, or your not getting as many.. It's like MSM news ratings, gotta keep'em up there.

People tie these ratings to their self-worth, and self-image, sometimes to their own detriment.

Very well said, thanks for that.

originally posted by: gottaknow
I watched it. It's sad. She's very sorry.

She wanted others to see it, so I did. It was her final wish and no, I don't believe the video should be taken down. Ever.

I think it should be used to spread awareness of sexual abuse and as a guide to destroy those who do such acts.

Also, I'm of full belief that we, as a species need to see these sorts of things to know, to really see, what's going on.

I agree...

It was her decision and nobody elses. Her final expression in the reality she perceived herself in. Very sad for her decision and it is a shame that nobody around her good enough to sense this horrible event coming. All it takes is one person to make a change.

I would say that there are a lot of us who have walked to the cliffs edge and looked over. I know I have.

Living in a free society things like this shouldn't be censored.

I just hope The Maker has a special place in store for her in her next existence.

I am sad to say that I am one of the people who have seen the video.

I really recommend nobody watches it.

As a father of two young daughters, it upset. me beyond belief

a reply to: PhyllidaDavenport

a reply to: markosity1973

I get what your saying. The Heathers effect so to speak. I've spent a good deal of time on suicide forums and yes, it does get romanticized (especially among teens) and that's not a good thing. There will likely be chains/copycats. That just seems to ...happen.

I still think this video should not be stopped because of the eye opener it is and what she meant it to be. After reading the countless comments(on many sites, not just this one) filled with anger, horror, demands to shut it down, calling her selfish and foolish and all the lovely derogatory sentiments we see all over the internet and it tells me that this is a wound that needs opening. It's far too easy for the general public to get really comfortable and hide within their social media away from the pain so many are going through. Keeping it ALL in the dark is part of what allows the perpetrators to keep perpetrating.

While I don't think the doors need to be swung wide open for all suicides to be publicized by any means, I think her statement is profound. I think her intentions were of integrity. And I think her wish to be seen is a fair one.

I think that probably as many of us who have had our families touched with cancer have been touched with suicide and I think that the quietness of it is also part of the problem. We keep it all in. It's good for some to keep it quiet, but not for everyone. I think it's indicative of a major failure on the way our society works that so many people don't have the support beyond a hotline/forum/etc. Those things are still removed from the ones in our lives who we really care about.

I've read countless stories on the suicide forums that sound just like Katelyn's. And I've read stories even worse.
The dysfunction that runs through this world is staggering and the abusers are plentiful. The thing is, I'm not even 100% that Katelyn's abusers will receive proper justice for what they did to this girl. I guess there's just not as much money in addressing these issues as there is from say, "drug offenders"? I don't really know what keeps these evil people walking the streets, but they just keep walking them.

I stand by my statement that in general, we keep too much of the violence and reality away from our sheltered, sheltered eyes from all the atrocities going on out there. This category just happens to be the saddest one. We never seem to learn that by pretending it doesn't happen doesn't make it go away.

originally posted by: gottaknow
a reply to: markosity1973

While I don't think the doors need to be swung wide open for all suicides to be publicized by any means, I think her statement is profound. I think her intentions were of integrity. And I think her wish to be seen is a fair one.

I think I can meet you halfway on this one.

I could understand if it were kept and watched by limited audiences for educational purposes.

I believe her intention would have been for those who are able to act and stop this sort of thing to see it, not everyone. So if it were restricted as an adults only video I could see the potential use of it.

a reply to: markosity1973

It's a tough call to make. Oftentimes, these kids are far wiser than we give them credit for. Currently taking care of a 13yr old myself and week to week he keeps amazing me with his changes and growth and how much thinking goes on inside that brain of his. The teens in the forums think a lot too. However, they consistently lack the ability to look beyond the agony they're going through or the breakup they just endured. They can't see how life won't necessarily always be the same and my responses to them generally attempt to promise them that.

My presumption is that she wants to help other girls out there like herself along the lines of "if just one other girl like me can see". This train of thought well intentioned, but of course, we know that's not the way to go about that. Certainly little ones don't need to see such things, but if there's some teen out there that sees that and gets the message of how one minute, she has a voice and a life and a future and the next, all of that is lost, it could be jarring enough to make them think "Maybe I COULD try something else first."

a reply to: gottaknow

I'm not sure how a kid who is (was RIP) in full suicide crisis mode help discourage another kid in the same frame of mind.

Speaking for myself only here, had I been able to access that video when I was 16, I would have found myself nodding and agreeing with her as I tie my own noose around my neck. She would have given me courage to do it because on TV it looks easy.

And that is my concern.

a reply to: markosity1973

And a perfectly valid concern it is.
Some of them that I read about stay in that crisis mode for months at a time much like she did. The sheer quantity of teens going through depression without intervention from truly caring people(not pharmaceuticals) will tear your heart out. The worst part is that for many, the reasons are ones that would seem incredibly petty or simple to us and could be solved so easily by a parent that paid a little more attention than usual.

When you look at it, it DOES look easy enough and yes, that's a problem. I was more stunned by the fact that with the time that went by in the video her resolve did not appear to falter. I'm just saying that the finality of it all might wake someone up as well.

a reply to: gottaknow

Having lived through it myself I know full well how long one can remain in crisis state. The longer one is in it, the more likely they are to follow through like this poor girl did.

It is appalling how many teens go through similar issues. I mentioned someone from my school who followed my lead and did the same thing as I did. For a while there in the late 80's to mid 90's there were at least two students a year dying from suicide. And this is a high school of only 450 students.

Social media has been a blessing and a curse for the current crop of teens - on one hand one is never far from their friends, but on the other, you can run, you can hide but the internet will always find you.

"Live" suicides, murders, etc.. will become so common that scant few will to take time out of their day to watch. Same thing happened with ISIS beheadings. Everyone Googled to see Daniel Pearl beheaded (including yours truly). But at some point, people lost interest, so ISIS quit making videos.

I have no desire to watch this young lady... 12 year old girl commit suicide. It sickens me that it's so common now amongst teens that schools quit talking about it. Student kills self, desk quietly emptied, end of story.

originally posted by: gottaknow
My presumption is that she wants to help other girls out there like herself along the lines of "if just one other girl like me can see". This train of thought well intentioned, but of course, we know that's not the way to go about that. Certainly little ones don't need to see such things, but if there's some teen out there that sees that and gets the message of how one minute, she has a voice and a life and a future and the next, all of that is lost, it could be jarring enough to make them think "Maybe I COULD try something else first."

The trouble with that is that you are thinking like an adult and despite

the make up and everything she is still very much a child

I think far from helping any other kid, this will do the opposite and could in fact encourage similar actions. As has been mentioned before, kids of that age have little understanding of death and the sheer finality of it. It could well be that in the mind of a similar child, streaming your death live on facebook is the ultimate celebrity status, watching those likes and comments shoot up. Instant stardom.

We don't know the extent of the alleged abuse and probably never will now. We don't know the whole family story and now she's gone, the only story that will come out is the one from the parents. Her own story is limited to writings in a diary the blog which says simply that "A January 1 capture of a blog purporting to be Davis's, but written under the pseudonym 'Dolly' - a name she used in other social media - lists abuse from a male relative including being hit with a studded belt. She adds he 'tried to rape me.' It goes on to allege that the man told her to hang herself after she asked him to 'stop being so perverted in front of my younger siblings.'

With regards to the make up and looking far older than she is, I think this is probably related to the low self esteem issue which she probably had.

We'll never know the truth but it hurts me as a mother to know a 12yr old was so depressed and no-one noticed.There should be no reason whatsoever for a child to be depressed

Very sad, and a waste of a life.

Now...apparently she use "Live.me" which is some teen site.....

Apparently, her Step father "Tried" to rape her??? The media is promoting sexual abuse...as in long term etc.
Her words were...."My step father "Tried" to rape me, and when he couldnt, he told me I was a (stupid/ugly whatever) whore and to go hang myself"......Her words on the site.

She was 12 years old......at puberty, hormones racing.....12 trying to be 18...as her photos show.

She seemed to hate her step dad.......Was he doing anything? was it all in her mind?...she was 12.

Now this is tragic in anyone's language, but suicide like this at this age is impulsive, spontaneous....even tho she "Planned" it for 3 days....usually a cry for help...or more important....Love. Maybe Just Maybe, she didnt get enough love over Christmas by her Mum or real Dad......could have been jealous of the attention her mum gave to her step dad, could be jealous and any new children in the family......

Could be a million things......But you can guarantee...the moment she kicked the bucket...as she apparently did....she would be thinking No No why did I do that!!!!

Apparently a Californian Police Officer, discovered the streaming and alerted authorities at the time, the paramedics came and she was taken to hospital, but couldnt be revived.

In any case......a tragedy for all involved. If only she "talked" to someone....and not just the faceless hoards of the pretend World of the Internet.....

a reply to: PhyllidaDavenport

Phyilly, you beat me by a minute or so......