Why do Atheist believe we cease to exist at death?

a reply to: tikbalang
Well, as one person said you will find out yourself soon enough. Personally I was overwhelmed with everything I saw and was coming into my consciousness. It is very difficult to put my experiences into words hence the fish tank analogy. I do recall distinctly realizing my body was back on Earth and that freaked me out for a second. There was no pain or anything. As a matter of fact it was absolute comfort. I never felt in my body like I felt then. It was wonderful.

The state police had a body bag brought for me one time and the second time I was written up as a fatality. I figure I was snatched back into my body when the medics resuscitated me. People think you see the light or whatever is brain death. I never saw a light. I was out of my body in a split second and out in space. I could see the Earth and moon off to my right and the sun. It quite an experience. In my consciousness out there I still felt like it was me. The information coming in was just overwhelming in that there was so much. It felt like a connection to everything known. It makes me think of a universal consciousness that retains all the information ever created for all life forms in the universe. It really is such an unusual experience that our words hardly explain it.

There was a neurosurgeon that recently had died and was brought back and he claims the idea of brain death can't explain his experience. Prior to his death he thought it was brain death that people experience.

Just because atheists don't believe in God and religion doesn't mean they don't believe in spirituality. I'm an atheist and believe we are spiritual beings.

Just don't try to sell me the story that a talking snake once convinced Eve that an apple a day keeps the doctor away 'cause I ain't buying it.

originally posted by: neoholographic
Again I ask, where's the scientific evidence that we cease to exist at death?

If there's no scientific evidence that supports such a notion why do Atheist believe it?

What more evidence do you need than the fact that the person isn't here anymore???

Are dead people that used to be here still here??? Is there body here??? Are they still speaking to someone??? Interacting with anything??? No. Once they're dead that's it.

You're looking at it backwards which is typical of this kind of thing. What scientific evidence can there be to show something not existing anymore?? What would your data show as a positive result for non existence anyway??? Nothing. Well if Nothing is what you're looking for as a scientific result, how are you going to test for it exactly???

It would be you who has to show evidence for there being something after death, not the other way around.

originally posted by: mOjOm
Also, what you think of as you. As the You that will continue on that is. Why is that you??? Are you sure that you are what you think you are???

It is a process. You are an individualized aspect of (?) that is developing a personality. Everytime you encarnate adds to the well rounded soul you will eventually become and never have to return again.

a reply to: mOjOm

Your response makes no sense. Science tells us energy can't be created nor destroyed. Also, information or the distinctions between things can't be destroyed. Your thoughts, memories and experiences occur because of this energy and information.

So there's evidence that our thoughts and memories are just transformed when we die and there's NO EVIDENCE that this energy and information ceases to exist.

a reply to: vethumanbeing

How is that since you have no knowledge of anything outside this life. Any past lessons or whatever aren't effecting you if you don't have recall of them. Again, where were you before you were born this round??? What did you learn??? What was the result??? What happened to you if you wake up tomorrow in the hospital and can't remember who you or anyone is??? Are you the same person??? Would you even really know??? You think of you differently than what others think when they see you. So who's right about who you are?? Are you sure???

originally posted by: neoholographic

Your response makes no sense. Science tells us energy can't be created nor destroyed. Also, information or the distinctions between things can't be destroyed. Your thoughts, memories and experiences occur because of this energy and information.

So there's evidence that our thoughts and memories are just transformed when we die and there's NO EVIDENCE that this energy and information ceases to exist.

But is that you??? Are you your energy?? (whatever that means??). Are you just some information or memories??? Like your water example. Water freezes or is liquid or is gas right??? The same thing in 3 different states. But what about the fact that it's also H2O and hydrogen and oxygen aren't water. So you can't say Water can't be destroyed because it can be. It can become hydrogen and oxygen. The energy is still there but it's not water anymore.

a reply to: neoholographic

Ceasing to exist after death is not a requirement for atheism. Some believe in a spirit realm and some believe in reincarnation.

Atheism is just the rejection of god or god claims. Thats it, everything else is a label on its own.

Coomba98

originally posted by: LumenImagoDei
Because people have been so caught up in the material world that they fail to see that they are more than just a material body, they fail to see that they are also a spirit that is eternal.

We live in a materialistic society/world and material things perish so those who are fixated on what they see (the perishable material) miss what they do not see within themselves (the imperishable spirit).

Everything works in cycles, we as conscious beings are no different. Death is only the beginning of the next cycle/life.

Very good points!

a reply to: neoholographic

How do we know we exist at all?

a reply to: neoholographic

Text That never made any sense to me. When I was a kid we learned in Science class how things transform but they don't cease to exist. Water transforms into ice if it get too cold. You later learn that neither mass nor energy can be created or destroyed. You then learn information can't be destroyed or what Susskind calls distinctions between things.

Very good point. The body of a man is moved by the brain. The brain contains the receivers which relate the commands to the body. If all of the sensors are not damaged then the body reacts as is directed by the mind. The mind is the energy source that controls the brain. There is the basic concept.

The mind is considered to be a consciousness of energy which some religions consider to be the spirit. In both circles of science and religion, the mind [spirit] is that which is renewable energy. We all can see that the brain does perish with the body at some point but the energy that controls that body never perishes. This is that of which is the focal point in science. So far in science it is accepted that the mind is detached from physicality and is believed by some that this will become demonstrable and provable in the near future.

originally posted by: Jdennis10
a reply to: neoholographic

How do we know we exist at all?

That may be the only thing you can say for sure. For example, "I Am" I think I can be sure of. What that means or who I am or what existence is, I may not be able to say for sure. But we should all be able to say "I am" or "I exist" at least in the moment. Anything past that it gets tricky.

originally posted by: Jdennis10
a reply to: neoholographic

How do we know we exist at all?

This is exactly my point. There's no material basis to say we cease to exist at death because science tells us things transform from one state to the other. They don't cease to exist.

a reply to: neoholographic

In a sense you're right. But what is existence exactly and who are you in that existence???

If you're eternal then where and who were you before you popped out your moms vagina???

Did you exist before you were born??? The energy and stuff that make you up was obviously around, but were you??? Because that stuff and energy isn't the same as you are they??? No more than you are your feet or your 10 year old body is you. The energy and particles may be eternal and in a sense so are your parts. But "YOU" aren't just your parts are you???

originally posted by: neoholographic
Again I ask, where's the scientific evidence that we cease to exist at death?

If there's no scientific evidence that supports such a notion why do Atheist believe it?

Where is the scientific evidence that we do? It's not required that science completely disprove every human belief system that exists. Like I said before, the onus, i.e.: the responsibility, is not on science to disprove these unsubstantiated claims and beliefs. The responsibility is on those who believe such things to prove that they are true.

You've got to get through this basic issue before you can go any further, and ignoring it isn't helping.

If you think Unicorns exist, you need to prove it. I don't have to prove that unicorns do not exist to your satisfaction.

originally posted by: mOjOm
a reply to: vethumanbeingagain where were you before born this round??? What did you learn??? What was the result??? What happened to you if you wake up tomorrow in the hospital and can't remember who you or anyone is??? Are you the same person??? Would you even really know??? You think of you differently than what others think when they see you. So who's right about who you are?? Are you sure???

Regarding this life? No knowledge of others having had. Had to learn what this is about. I doubt another life is forthcoming because I have figured it all out (finally) with this one. What I learned was how to be human in "Excellerated Human School" many times over to gain the wisdom of 100s of lifetimes. No one is right about who I am. I do know that there exists a soul group of all of my human lives..a family that cheers for each other. One eternal soul with many personalities. In between lives one is in a period of rest or recovery..it takes about 150 years before reincarnating again. No one is right about you not even members of your own soul group---you that have split into two; say you are two sisters living within the same family.

a reply to: mOjOm

Because as we age we forget who we were as we grow and learn new things from new parents and friends. Some might have a gift to remember but those are the lucky ones. They might be messengers.

originally posted by: mOjOm
a reply to: neoholographic

In a sense you're right. But what is existence exactly and who are you in that existence???

If you're eternal then where and who were you before you popped out your moms vagina???

Did you exist before you were born??? The energy and stuff that make you up was obviously around, but were you??? Because that stuff and energy isn't the same as you are they??? No more than you are your feet or your 10 year old body is you. The energy and particles may be eternal and in a sense so are your parts. But "YOU" aren't just your parts are you???

Again, let's return to science.

Science tells us that local realism is dead. So separation or the distinctions between past, present and future are a persistent illusion as Einstein said.

So yes, I existed before I was born and I will exist after I die because your mind is the only thing that separates the two not the universe.

Also, there's a lot of scientific research done on past lives. Again, there's no evidence that we cease to exist at death.

originally posted by: schuyler
Where is the scientific evidence that we do? It's not required that science completely disprove every human belief system that exists. Like I said before, the onus, i.e.: the responsibility, is not on science to disprove these unsubstantiated claims and beliefs. The responsibility is on those who believe such things to prove that they are true.

You've got to get through this basic issue before you can go any further, and ignoring it isn't helping.

If you think Unicorns exist, you need to prove it. I don't have to prove that unicorns do not exist to your satisfaction.

Exactly. Which is why saying "Atheists say you cease to exist but can't prove it" isn't how it should be looked at at all. The fact is that when someone dies, from that point on we cannot show any positive proof that they exist anymore. Other than their body which is still there for a limited time all other signs of their existence is gone.

So the default position for the question of do you exist after you die is no. Based on how we define existence. So if you want to make a case for existence after death, you have to show some positive result that existence is still happening for someone who's dead and gone. We have none.

So nobody is saying for sure, We don't exist after death. What we're saying is that there is no hard evidence to show that we do exist after death. We have stories and that's it. Nothing consistent, repeatable or reliable that shows anything different. But that doesn't mean you aren't right. You might be. But can you prove it??

originally posted by: neoholographic

Again, there's no evidence that we cease to exist at death.

If that's true then can you show me evidence that Socrates exists??? In what way can you get evidence showing that Socrates exists?? Because we know he's dead already. So if he still exists, show me evidence of it.

Because if you can't, then the assumption is that he doesn't exist.