More brexit scaremongering....

Unfortunately we will constantly see negative stories in our msm regarding Brexit.
I just thought that the BBC would be more impartial and give us more balance.
Clearly the stakes are too high for that.

I never thought I would say this but Brexit is bigger than Britain!!

Brexit represents the people vs the global establishment and no way will the establishment just roll over, especially now Trump will be campaigning on a similar platform (people vs establishment), so you can expect to see more propaganda/scare stories around the presidential election to try and suggest that us little people are wrong and they are correct.

I find it impossible to imagine that the MSM and the elites can't understand that we are not against immigration, but against uncontrolled immigration. Though they just seems completely oblivious to the idea and start saying 'stop blaming immigrants' or something to distract the audience.

It's clear the majority of people want a sensible points based system that will allow us to control the quantity and quality of the people coming here to live and work. Especially to help support our vital industries where there is high demand for employees, such as the NHS and engineering.

Still bemused this has to be mentioned time and time again.
When will these people get it into their heads?
How the # did they even get to their high positions whilst being so dumb!


end of rant

Well, I work in this field.

The NHS has made an industry of plundering places like India of doctors.

BREXIT has sod all to do with the availability of doctors. Instread the DH is waking up to the following simple to compute and work out facts... Late in the day, but t least they are taking action.

1. There is a finite supply of decent doctors from India and places like that. Many who do come over are rubbish anyway.
2. The UK needs more doctors in the right specialities fit for the UK healthcare system.
3. If you need more doctors then you need to train more.
4. The NHS has failed to properly plan and fund training of doctors and health professionals of all types. It's easier to plunder the third world! It's negligence of the first degree.

Ding dong.

Plus, to add following the selfish actions of the BMA and junior doctors. Most UK doctors will end up earning £100K plus as consultants, but are too important to work weekends. However you cut the statistics if you end up in hospital during the weekend (because your GP is off baking cakes and sunbathing) you are more likely to die because consutants are too busy at home too. The "mass migration" of junior doctors to places outside of the UK isn't gonna happen beacuse they actully get paid very well, thank you very much!

originally posted by: eletheia
Or how about we just go back to becoming a nurse straight from school
and learning the job from the bottom up (LOL!! no pun intended)
There were very good dedicated compassionate nurses at the time *nursing*
was taught on the job .... and a degree wasnt a requirement to becoming
a nurse!

First of all aprox. 50% of a nursing degree is clinical practice (mainly in hospitals). The NMC requires student nursed to train for a minimum of 2300 hours to graduate as a nurse. So, using your own words, nurses are still 'taught on the job'.

Second, having a degree does not mean nurses have no compassion. Nurses are still caring and dedicated because empathy comes from within and it's not something you learn and I can assure you nurses do not choose their career because of the easy job or high salaries: they do it because they care about people and they love looking after people.

originally posted by: eletheia
Every woman who becomes a mother, or looks after elderly parents has
nursing 'skills', learned as they go along ... and not all of them are 'dumb' or
have degrees.

What an ignorant comparison. Nursing care is still there, just as it always was: we still feed patient, give them sponge baths, helped them with all their personal care whilst maintaining dignity and respect.... nurses still empty commodes and bedpans, change pads, empty catheters,etc... those things have not changed.

What's changed is that once upon a time nurses were not required to engage in problem solving or decision making, it was all task orientated. Now nurses have to be able to deal with an emergency without simply calling out for a doctor and have to be able to make immediate clinical judgements based on their own assessments.

Healthcare is completely different: not long ago patients used to stay in hospital for weeks after a galbladder operation (for example), now they go home the following day. And this small example shows that nursing could never have stayed as it was fifty years ago. Nurses are also expected to do tasks only doctors could before, for example changing IVs bags and taking blood pressure readings.

Too posh to wash? Completely untrue and only said by those who have no clue.

a reply to: Agartha


*Nurses have only been required to have degrees since 2013*

*The Patient Association* intimates 'The basics of nursing care are

dignity compassion and above all safety. Since the introduction of

Project 2000 (an earlier innitative to up grade nurses training) which

shifted training from the bed side to the classroom,nurses look to the

personal prizes of nurse specialisation and have been allowed to ignore

the needs of their sick vulnerable and often elderly patients. These

new proposals risk making the situation worse.


It need not be like this - for patients and trainee nurses alike. With a

combined diploma degree system, there is still enough room to move up

the hierarchy ladder and make career progress,


Making it a degree only sends out the wrong message, especially when Gov.

knows there are problems following 'Project 2000'

The academic must be secondary to the practical. Only then will patients

get the nurses they want and trust - the right ones with the right attitude.


*It must never become more important to write about care, than to give it*

www.theguardian.com...

originally posted by: eletheia
... and have been allowed to ignore the needs of their sick vulnerable and often elderly patients.

Rubbish. You posted a fearmongering old article from 2009 and what the patients association said and predicted then, have not become true, in fact they were proven wrong.

Every developed country has degree educated nurses, why shouldn't UK nurses do the same?

Having a degree doesn't mean just being able to write at academic level, it also means a higher level of medical knowledge (anatomy/pathophysiology) which is essential to keep patients safe. Come and work as a nurse and then you'll understand.

a reply to: Flavian

TextHahahaha paranoid much? Do you honestly think the Tories want to destory the NHS?

Jeremy Hunt wrote a book on how to dismantle and privitise the NHS. He was then made minister of health.
Of course they want to destroy it.
They want poor people to die! Only the rich deserve to live (in their eyes).

a reply to: crazyewok

Here's a novel idea, why don't you push universities and other academic institutes to encourage young people to enter the medical profession. You could encourage it by providing grants & incentives for students and institutions.
This is an area that governments should be pushing through both the job seekers and academia.

This has been an issue for decades, it's why we have to import so many to work in the medical profession.

originally posted by: Agartha

Rubbish. You posted a fearmongering old article from 2009 and what the patients association said and predicted then, have not become true, in fact they were proven wrong.

Fear mongering?

Seeing as it was only 2013 when nurses required a degree I think its a bit early

to say they were proven wrong.!

Having a degree doesn't mean just being able to write at academic level, it also means a higher level of medical knowledge (anatomy/pathophysiology) which is essential to keep patients safe. Come and work as a nurse and then you'll understand.

I don't need to work as a nurse to see what goes on,I not so long ago witnessed

on three separate occasions examples of poor no bad nursing of

very elderly patients.

originally posted by: crazyewok
a reply to: Nexttimemaybe

Again its not rocket science.

Need doctors = train more doctors.

True but who in their right mind would want to train given the ongoing privatisation of the NHS and with Jeremy Hunt is charge who treats junior doctors like # and refuses to listen to any/all scientific evidence and front line evidence of how the NHS has collapsed, been sold off to Virgin Care and all his strategies will cause conditions for patients and staff to deteriorate further?

All my friends who are doctors have emigrated to China, Japan, Nigeria or the Netherlands as patients recieve far better care and staff are paid far more and well looked after (these are selfless people who do it for the love of saving lives, not making money - they were some of the UKs top in their respective fields and I thought they were joking when).

In my opinion until they replace him with someone with medical knowlege and awareness and the government pump in money to save the NHS instead of breaking it beyond repair so the public are slowly won round to privatisation of health care; the only people who would train as doctors would be too criminally thick and ignorant of the current situation they wouldn't be fit to become doctors.

Investing in training, sciences, the NHS and a health secretary who is medically qualified needs to be done aswel as these cuts and Major and Blairs privatisation by stealth are the root causes of why we don't have enough people willing or capable to work in the service.

originally posted by: mclarenmp4
a reply to: crazyewok

Here's a novel idea, why don't you push universities and other academic institutes to encourage young people to enter the medical profession. You could encourage it by providing grants & incentives for students and institutions.
This is an area that governments should be pushing through both the job seekers and academia.

This has been an issue for decades, it's why we have to import so many to work in the medical profession.

That's what anyone with a braincell would do.

Sadly this government have massively reduced university investment in STEM (Science, Technology, Engineering and Maths)

Universities did rely on international non EU student fees to keep afloat - so the government introduced a cap on non-EU students, which has caused many (including UCLan where II worked at) to become private in all but name (CLG - Company Limited by Guarantee).

The cuts to local authorities have led to major cuts in primary school and high school standards as they can't afford to (One teacher I know of who worked in Clairmont school in Blackpool hadn't marked students work from September to May as he didn't think it was his job to, plus he was so incompetent he was teaching the class that any number multiplied by 1 = 1 - i.e 10000 x 1 = 1 and point blank refused to admit he was wrong - while trained staff had contracts terminated as the school couln't afford to employ them).

Still to come - billions of EU investment to UK STEM Uni subjects will come in, many academics are emigrating so they're able to continue EU colloborative scientific research and many places will be forced to make do with employing whoever is left as the incentives for the best academics/professors/researchers/teachers to come and work in the UK will be removed.

Agreed New Labour were almost as bad as the introduction of student fees etc created a situation where getting into higher education was more to do with how rich you/your parents were than actual academic ability.

originally posted by: eletheia
Seeing as it was only 2013 when nurses required a degree I think its a bit early to say they were proven wrong.!

Pal, nurses have been required to study to a diploma level (at uni) for the past 15 years. A degree is just one step higher, diploma was still uni based.

I don't need to work as a nurse to see what goes on,I not so long ago witnessed on three separate occasions examples of poor no bad nursing of very elderly patients.

How do you know those nurses had a degree? And I hope you made a formal complaint about those nurses.