Family declares war on off-duty cop in road rage shooting

originally posted by: MarkOfTheV
a reply to: Boadicea

You guys are incredulous. Did ANYBODY here read the story?

A guy with 19 prior arrests that served THREE terms in prison for robbery, drug sale, and stabbing gets pissed when he thinks some guy cut him off. He chases the car around for several blocks and at a stop light, gets out of the car and starts throwing haymakers through the window at an off duty 3 year cop. The cop shot him.

Eye-witness and surveillance footage corroborates this.

Motorist punches cop before getting shot.

NYPD to Probe Off Duty Cop Involved In Road Rage Shooting

They are buying into the mainstream medias anti-cop thugs are saints agenda.


iTruthSeeker

originally posted by: Orionx2

originally posted by: Annee
Just one question.

Do we have at least 2 sides to this story?

What fun would that be... Just go Ferguson on he said she said.....

You better have some damn good proof before you go all vigilante on cops or anyone else.

I'm beginning to think LEO should be given more power back, instead of less.

I am no pacifist. I want Law and Order.

originally posted by: Boadicea
But I think those who chose to employ the officer do have some culpability as well. Especially if there were past/ongoing complaints and they continued to employ the officer.

The Mayor/Police Chief can be held accountable prior to their removal since they handle the interview process. I am very much against the citizenry at large being held hostage by other people's bad behavior.

a reply to: MarkOfTheV

You guys are incredulous. Did ANYBODY here read the story?

Yes, I am rather incredulous after reading your comment... did YOU read the OP???

I don't think the dead guy's niece really gives a rat's patootie what you or even I think. She believes it was a wrongful death, much like many many other deaths that she knows of personally or anecdotally, and she has declared war on that cop. And no one is giving her any reason to believe otherwise.

And for what it's worth, it's exactly because of folks like you -- including LEOs -- who would play judge, jury and executioner without benefit of due process that folks like the victim's niece are put in the position they are.

Blame the dead guy all you want. But know that you are part of the problem. If you cannot defend everyone's right to life... if you will put an officer above the law... then you are helping create the very perception that she is desperately fighting the only way she knows how.

originally posted by: AugustusMasonicus
I am very much against the citizenry at large being held hostage by other people's bad behavior.

For sure.

originally posted by: Boadicea

Blame the dead guy all you want. But know that you are part of the problem. If you cannot defend everyone's right to life... if you will put an officer above the law... then you are helping create the very perception that she is desperately fighting the only way she knows how.

I absolutely blame the dead guy in this incident.

"Right to Life"? Seriously?

The officer is not above the law. He IS the law. And he was being attacked. Guess you don't support his "Right to Life".

a reply to: Annee

I gotta admit, I've had enough of thugs being glorified as victims.

And I've had enough of victims being dismissed as thugs, while thugs with a badge and a gun are glorified as heroes.

Seems to me he is fully responsible for his "character".

Seems to me cops are fully responsible for their "character". And their actions. Especially their lethal actions.

And as their "employer," so are we all responsible for the character and actions of our LEOs.

originally posted by: Boadicea
a reply to: Annee

I gotta admit, I've had enough of thugs being glorified as victims.

And I've had enough of victims being dismissed as thugs, while thugs with a badge and a gun are glorified as heroes.

Seems to me he is fully responsible for his "character".

Seems to me cops are fully responsible for their "character". And their actions. Especially their lethal actions.

And as their "employer," so are we all responsible for the character and actions of our LEOs.

This guy was a thug and was the attacker.

The cop defended his "Right to Life"

a reply to: Orionx2

You better have some damn good proof before you go all vigilante on cops or anyone else.

And cops need to have some damn good proof AFTER they go all Judge Dredd on a civilian or anyone else.

Vigilantes, on the other hand, don't want or need proof. When the rules don't work, they don't play by the rules.

I have a slightly off topic question: Are all officers approved for conceal carry? I'm just curious because he was off duty and had a gun.

originally posted by: Autorico

I have a slightly off topic question: Are all officers approved for conceal carry? I'm just curious because he was off duty and had a gun.

Yes, most police offers are licensed to carry firearms off duty since they are never technically off duty. This does not mean that they have to, only that they can. There are some other additional restrictions but this is typically the norm.

originally posted by: Boadicea
I have made the case many times that we are not doing our LEOs any favors by turning them into thugs with a badge and a gun and a license to kill. Taking a life is brutal on the heart and the soul. Our LEOs deserve better than that. MUCH better.

What's it going to take? Maybe folks will pay a little more attention when natural law takes over. Specifically, the survival instinct. We can cry "comply! comply!" all we want, but sometimes folks cannot "comply" through no fault of their own... and when folks know that their lives are in danger, instinct takes over... fight or flight. And when you have nowhere to run... and nowhere to hide... and the police are your enemies... Then it's just fight.

We MUST do better.

Family declares war on off-duty cop in road rage shooting

The family of a Brooklyn man shot dead by an off-duty cop during a road-rage incident demanded Tuesday that the officer be charged in the killing — or they’ll “hunt him down” themselves.

Zoe Dempsey, the 23-year-old niece of slain dad Delrawn Small, said, “We will seek our justice’’ — and get violent if necessary.

I am not in any way, shape or form condoning such vengeance.

But I do understand that this a natural -- and EXPECTED -- reaction to the threat so many people feel from LEOs who would shoot first and ask questions later. Goose... gander. If cops feel "scared" for their lives because Joe Blow might have a gun, you can bet Joe Blow will be even more scared for because they know Joe Officer has a gun and is ready to use it.

Especially knowing that Joe Officer has to little fear from the consequences of killing Joe Blow; whereas Joe Blow knows he'll face the ultimate consequences for killing Joe Officer. Who has more to lose? Not Joe Officer.

The most dangerous people in the world are those with everything to lose... or nothing to lose.

What can we do about it? Here are a few suggestions:

• Better defensive training for all LEOs, starting with how NOT to create a volatile situation, and how to de-escalate volatile situations, etc., but most of all stop training LEOs that we are their enemy!!!
  
• Provide best defensive equipment impossible, such as bulletproof vests/body armor -- what else?
  
• Dash and body cams with audio -- automatically activated, and preferably live streaming for public viewing and download (which protects the LEOs at least as much as the public)
  
• Steroid testing -- not random testing, but at supervisor's discretion with probable cause, and especially after an officer-involved shooting
  
• Immediate removal of officer from scene
  
• Immediate statement taken from officer -- and released to the public (along with video/audio)
  
• Immediate suspension of officer without pay pending investigation
  
• Improved initial psychological testing for recruits; minimum 100 IQ required.
  
• Improved ongoing psychological counseling for possible depression, PTSD, and other mental/emotional hazards of the job

That's all I've got. Please -- PLEASE -- add to the list. We need solutions and we need them yesterday.

I would especially like to hear from the LEOs on the site. What do you need to be safer? What would help you do your job better? What do you want civilians to know?

According to the people who made this country (founding fathers) it is not just the right of the family to seak vengeance but there duty. Sic Semper Tyrannis. If a cop killed a family member out of anger and skated on punishment well, then that would be a very dead cop. This country is about US! You and me, not bureaucracy, not tyranny, but Liberty and it's OUR duty to take back OUR government if that Government stops doing it's job and well, . . . . . That is EXACTLY what is happening. We should March to Washington and remind TPTB that we are the 99% and it is about what WE the people want and that is Justice, Safety and Liberty.

originally posted by: Autorico
I have a slightly off topic question: Are all officers approved for conceal carry? I'm just curious because he was off duty and had a gun.

I don't think there is anything as a Police Officer off duty.

a reply to: AugustusMasonicus Annee

Ah OK, thanks

originally posted by: Boadicea
a reply to: MarkOfTheV

...did YOU read the OP???

Yes I did. And then I read the story.... and you are using the WRONG situation to support your argument. This wasn't police brutality... a man attacked another man sitting in his car. A guy got shot because he lost his temper and picked a fight with someone willing to defend themselves.

Since when is defending yourself against an assailant acting above the law?

Yeah I'm part of the problem, not the recidivist. Keep living in lala land.

originally posted by: Boadicea
a reply to: MarkOfTheV

You guys are incredulous. Did ANYBODY here read the story?

Yes, I am rather incredulous after reading your comment... did YOU read the OP???

I don't think the dead guy's niece really gives a rat's patootie what you or even I think. She believes it was a wrongful death, much like many many other deaths that she knows of personally or anecdotally, and she has declared war on that cop. And no one is giving her any reason to believe otherwise.

And for what it's worth, it's exactly because of folks like you -- including LEOs -- who would play judge, jury and executioner without benefit of due process that folks like the victim's niece are put in the position they are.

Blame the dead guy all you want. But know that you are part of the problem. If you cannot defend everyone's right to life... if you will put an officer above the law... then you are helping create the very perception that she is desperately fighting the only way she knows how.

Wow, I am lost for words. What do you not understand? This cop was being viciously attacked and pummled. Deadly force is completely justified. You cannot fight back with your fists when your seatbelted in a car getting your face pounded. Was he supposed to just take a few more and get knocked out or killed?

iTruthSeeker

a reply to: iTruthSeeker

They are buying into the mainstream medias anti-cop thugs are saints agenda.

Standing up for life -- ALL life -- and the rule of law is not "buying" into anything. Recognizing and demanding accountability for rogue cops is not "buying" into anything.

If you cannot get past the "person" long enough to see the principles involved, you might want to think about what agenda you're buying into... and perpetuating.

Oh yeah..this is just a marvelous idea. Because of course if it was YOUR family it would always be JUSTIFIED. You would always know that you were 100% right before you took action. Vengeance, vigilantism. Yeah. No.

Taking care of your own when it comes to certain matters is just not the way society or the legal system are set up today.

Some of the reactions here though do go to a couple of theories. Some people just really just want to BE the police, as much as they claim to hate the police or not to need the police.

Maybe some of y'all were just born in the wrong damn century, in which case, maybe that breakaway country idea might not be so bad.

a reply to: MarkOfTheV

So if a cop comes to my car door and starts punching me I have every right to shoot him?

By you guy's standards, there'd be many dead cops then.......

a reply to: AugustusMasonicus

The Mayor/Police Chief can be held accountable prior to their removal since they handle the interview process. I am very much against the citizenry at large being held hostage by other people's bad behavior.

Perfect!!!

I like that because you're right -- the citizens didn't hire him, and those who did should be personally responsible.