UK Votes to Leave EU

a reply to: eletheia

Hopefully.

I was 50/50 anyway.

Can always emigrate if it goes down the stinkhole

originally posted by: paraphi

originally posted by: Soloprotocol
Independence = No Warships built on the Clyde..... Turns out it was the opposite. The Warships have mysteriously been cancelled.

Duped and believing anything, yes. The warships have not been cancelled. They are delayed, as often happens with complex defence projects. No doubt with the nationalists gunning for independence again they will definitely be cancelled. Quite right too. As Scotland withdraws from the Union, so will shipbuilding.

Delayed is as good as cancelled. Companies dont keep employees on a promise of orders..Maybe.

originally posted by: paraphi
The warships have not been cancelled. They are delayed, as often happens with complex defence projects. No doubt with the nationalists gunning for independence again they will definitely be cancelled. Quite right too. As Scotland withdraws from the Union, so will shipbuilding.

Agreed, and rightly so, Royal Navy ships are not built in foreign countries.
I would want the investment to be injected into the continuing UK, unlucky Scotland your choice kind of thing...and purely opinion, but I imagine most Welsh, English, and Northern Irish people would agree, wanting a slice of that industrial cake over Scotland if it became a foreign nation, every time.

ScepticScot:

Within the EU principle sovereignty remains with nation states (as demonstrated by the fact of the referendum).

The referendum has nothing whatsoever to do with EU principle of sovereignty. We were not fully in the EU, which is why we were able to hold a referendum in the first place. To be in the EU, the people have to rubber-stamp the act of membership, for without that EU membership is actually null and void. Politicians cannot take a country in to an EU membership without people agreeing to it. It is called sovereignty of consensus...people power. The intended future of the EU is a superstate, where all member countries (no longer identifying as a country, but as a vassal state to the EU) cede sovereignty over to the EU entirely.

sovereignty has to be pooled at some level to work.

Only if you intend to give it up. Sovereignty is never pooled. Self-determination is exactly what it says on the tin, and goes by the name sovereignty. You don't have 'some' sovereignty for yourself, and 'some' sovereignty for some other institution. You have entirely full self-determination sovereignty. You don't cut sovereignty up and pass it around to other players. Sovereignty is not for politicians to play with, or to barter with. Sovereignty is a self-determined right, best exemplified by the declaration of America's constitution...ie, we the people.

Before you get all misty eyed about sovereignty remember that North Korea is a sovereign nation. It dosent make it accountable to its people.

I have never been misty-eyed, I'm a realist.

originally posted by: Soloprotocol

Delayed is as good as cancelled.

No it's not. Delayed means that the shipyards don't close. Cancelled means they do. You have been duped into believing something that is not. I think the chance of warships being built in Scotland is becoming more remote as the nationalists promote another referendum.

originally posted by: raymundoko
a reply to: slider1982

Apparently that's why they were given 90 days notice. That's all that is required for a no fault release I guess. They have already lawyer'd up.

I think you are over looking what you stated, you said she was being sacked due to her being British and because Brexit happened she is being forced from her job and is being replaced by someone who is still a current EU member state patron, the role still exists!!!. That is discrimination and if she does not fight it then more fool her.

Like I said what does her trade Union have to say. I cannot fire a staff member due to their cultural heritage (Which is what is happening here), I may have to make someone redundant if their working visa situation changed but in her situation nothing at the moment has changed, I cannot see unless she signed a rather poor contract that I would have a third party view regardless how she can be in a situation like this. It is actually very hard to sack staff members outside of disciplinary.

It needs to be looked at with facts, Brexit at this moment means bugger all, nothing is on the table and article 50 has not been activated to my knowledge. She and her friends as you say are simply being fired due to their cultural heritage nothing more. If you do not think a lawyer could find a connection between the Brexit vote, her home country (UK) and the timing of the release from her role then it is a very naive way of looking at it.


RA

heatst.com...


Well, Mexico already has a draft treaty?

Plus Oz, NZ, Canada, India, Ghana, South Korea,Iceland, Norway, Faroes and Uncle Sam.

Not even been a week, yet and we have most of the free world wanting to get into bed with us.

This could be a New World Order in the making.


Just as the sun never used to set on the British Empire, maybe the sun won't set on the British free trade club?

originally posted by: SprocketUK
heatst.com...


Well, Mexico already has a draft treaty?

Plus Oz, NZ, Canada, India, Ghana, South Korea,Iceland, Norway, Faroes and Uncle Sam.

Not even been a week, yet and we have most of the free world wanting to get into bed with us.

This could be a New World Order in the making.


Just as the sun never used to set on the British Empire, maybe the sun won't set on the British free trade club?

People that said we needed the EU for trade are very short sighted, there are so many legislation and quotas in place it was costing UK business absurd amounts to qualify their goods. What does it matter if we sell to France or Canada?. I would take the world market that allows way more freedom for goods than the EU system that was in place to squeeze every last penny out of small business..

"Oh you want to sell your windows do you, well article 37 of the EU legislation treaty on window supply that was amended with committee agreement in 2014 states that diameter needs to meet the thickness standard of article 5 without prejudice to article 98 BLAH BLAH F###### BLAH!"


RA


HELLO WORLD........

a reply to: slider1982

Like I said, early days, but it's pretty encouraging isn't it?
By the time our country is properly out of the EU we should have all the trade deals we'll ever need in place.

originally posted by: SprocketUK
heatst.com...


Well, Mexico already has a draft treaty?

Of course it does. We are, after all, the largest coc aine market in Europe, by some considerable margin.

I have to admit it is starting to look more encouraging than i thought it would, which is certainly a positive. That said, it is still early days and we still have a piss poor manufacturing base, unless it is for extremely high end engineering.

So, am i optimistic? No.

Am i becoming exceedingly cautiously optimistic? Yes.

Of those in the list you posted, South Korea (electronics), Norway (gas, oil), Faroes (fish), Ghana (where we send our waste), New Zealand (lamb) and obviously the US (everything!) are very important deals to be getting signed (potentially).

I am sure Australia and Canada are equally important to our economy but to be perfectly honest i am having a bad day and can't really think straight so am not sure why. I know they are useful for Tar oils, Uranium, etc, but they are all free trade goods anyway by global agreement, so there are no tariffs and easy deals available for those. That, by the way, isn't a knock at our Aussie or Canuck cousins, more an admission of ignorance on my part!

a reply to: Flavian

Well, Ozzie wine, Canadian Maple syrup


Thing is, Oz and Canada would be good places to sell cars to as well as buy things from and don't forget financial services which are generally excluded when the EU does a trade deal on out behalf. I am sure that there are plenty of Commonwealth countries that would make use of the City's expertise.

BOJO mentioned Malaysia during his speech earlier, so we won't ever be shy of tuk tuks and nasi goreng either!

(I jest, I know they make far more than those things).

I do hope it will work out well for the UK but i'm less positive about all this.
The EU is the largest trading partner for the UK, almost half of the total export is to member states within the EU.
So more than likely the UK will negotiate a deal in order to have access to the single market.
For now, nothing has really changed, there is uncertainty which will have an effect on the economy of the UK so investors will wait for the outcome.
In my opinion it is not in the interest of the UK to wait to long with the activation of art50 and the following negotiations for access to the single market.
Trade deals take a long time before they are final and satisfactory to both sides.

The French are already making the right noises re free trade without free movement.
www.express.co.uk...


I wonder if the EU still counts transhipping as an "export to the EU"?

Because when we send a container to Rotterdam to be forwarded to Oz or the USA or somewhere, it was counted as an export to the EU even though it was actually going somewhere else.

a reply to: SprocketUK

Good question which i can't answer at the moment, the only thing i can say is that about 11 percent of export from the UK is to the US.

Looks like BoJo is out of the running for PM and Gove is in.

www.bbc.com...

originally posted by: SprocketUK
The French are already making the right noises re free trade without free movement.
www.express.co.uk...


I wonder if the EU still counts transhipping as an "export to the EU"?

Because when we send a container to Rotterdam to be forwarded to Oz or the USA or somewhere, it was counted as an export to the EU even though it was actually going somewhere else.

Its only mad Merkal that seems to have the bee in her bonnet about free movement.

No idea why. Most of the EU population is turning on Brussels for it. but she still keeps here head in the sand.

But unfortunately its Germany that control the EU.

originally posted by: MrCrow
Looks like BoJo is out of the running for PM and Gove is in.

www.bbc.com...

I think gove has the backing of Murdoch and Paul daker, the dail Mail editor. He is more in tune with their views apparently. So more Murdoch daker domination of sovereignBritish politics. When will we learn?

a reply to: crazyewok

Yeah, though you have to wonder if she can withstand the ire of the auto unions and German manufacturers organisations who all want free trade for obvious reasons.

originally posted by: earthling42
a reply to: SprocketUK

Good question which i can't answer at the moment, the only thing i can say is that about 11 percent of export from the UK is to the US.

Seems they still do, but it's next to impossible to find out how much is affected. I just did a quick Google and wish I hadn't bothered