Actor Luis Burbano played a "club patron" in a video titled "Shooting Up" by Spirit of Orlando

a reply to: Boadicea

I agree with all of your thinking and I wish I could answer that question, too.

I tend to think if it opened in, a frightened mob would toss his 145 pound butt out of the way. If it opened out, how does a 145 pound guy prevent a door from being opened by an adrenaline-fueled mob of people running for their lives?

originally posted by: olaru12
I think it's a stretch calling him a professional actor.

His professional resumé says he is an actor and he is represented by a professional talent agency. Plus, he managed to get a gig on an episode of Burn Notice. I don't think it's a stretch to call him a professional actor.

Also, there is the other actress/victim, front and center...Patience Carter. (Oh, and she is an intern at FOX news.)

As such, I feel I have enough cause to be cynical about these facts.

ETA: Add to that...MOTIVE. I am someone who believes motive is important to a criminal investigation. And those benefitting the most are people with a political agenda within our federal government. Because they have the means and opportunity, too, I am calling them the prime suspects and I really don't feel that's reaching.

a reply to: MotherMayEye

Exactly. The only way I could see this working is if he was outside and the door opened in, because in that case I could see him having a slight advantage in that he didn't really need any room to maneuver the door, whereas the folks on the other side of the door in trying to pull it open would have to contend with the opposite force of the crowd pushing against them, trying to flee.

But this begs another question: How exactly could the other guy "help" him hold a door knob? How big could it have been? It seems more likely that any help from someone else could only have been to add his weight to a door being pushed outward. Or standing side-by-side with him inside as they literally blocked the door with their bodies from the others inside. But no witnesses inside mention a second man blocking the door.

Or am I missing something?

originally posted by: Boadicea
a reply to: MotherMayEye

Exactly. The only way I could see this working is if he was outside and the door opened in, because in that case I could see him having a slight advantage in that he didn't really need any room to maneuver the door, whereas the folks on the other side of the door in trying to pull it open would have to contend with the opposite force of the crowd pushing against them, trying to flee.

But this begs another question: How exactly could the other guy "help" him hold a door knob? How big could it have been? It seems more likely that any help from someone else could only have been to add his weight to a door being pushed outward. Or standing side-by-side with him inside as they literally blocked the door with their bodies from the others inside. But no witnesses inside mention a second man blocking the door.

Or am I missing something?

The other guy helping him hold the door is a new fact added to the story. New to me, anyway. Perhaps added because his online resumé shows he is a very small man and not likely capable of barricading a door on his own?

I don't see any scenario where he could, alone, hold the door.

And another party helping him?

Geez, at that point I would think one of them would realize "We can't trap people inside to die!"...let alone the physics issues you described.

a reply to: MotherMayEye

The other guy helping him hold the door is a new fact added to the story. New to me, anyway. Perhaps added because his online resumé shows he is a very small man and not likely capable of barricading a door on his own?

Or just in case one of the witnesses point out that he's not the one they saw blocking the door? In which case he could easily say "Oh, that must have been the other random guy helping me."

Perhaps someone has said it already, and we just haven't seen it.

ETA: I don't think he mentioned the "random guy" in the ABC interview, just the Fox interview. I could be wrong about that though. Funny thing to omit if true, eh?

a reply to: Boadicea

I like that theory, too! And, yes, it's possible I have missed all kinds of info. I almost never look at major U.S. news sources. I just can't stomach them.

originally posted by: Boadicea
ETA: I don't think he mentioned the "random guy" in the ABC interview, just the Fox interview. I could be wrong about that though. Funny thing to omit if true, eh?

YES!

In fact, I find it odd he would own up to holding the door closed, at all, given witnesses already said it caused people to be trampled. Who would want to 'bravely' own up to that and take ALL the blame if someone else helped him?

Sure, some people might own up to it, but I don't believe this guy would given he was, IMO, very cowardly in doing such a thing, in the first place. (If he actually did it.)


ETA: In another interview I saw with him, he claimed he was 'out' within ONE MINUTE of the start of the shooting. He had to have known nearly everyone was still trapped inside at that point. I do not believe for a moment that he thought most people were out within ONE MINUTE.

a reply to: MotherMayEye

In fact, I find it odd he would own up to holding the door closed, at all, given witnesses already said it caused people to be trampled.

Exactly!!! Why was he even flapping his lips about it??? It wasn't like he was on an apology tour to atone for his poor judgment... Nope. I felt like he was trying to justify it. Not even to simply explain his actions, but to actually justify his actions.

Think of the legal -- criminal -- ramifications as well. Once he knew that his decision and actions possibly/probably killed people, wouldn't he be worried about criminal charges? Negligent or reckless manslaughter at the very least? I'd be lawyering up and keeping my lips zipped.... NOT spilling my guts on national news programs where anything and everything I say can be used against me in a court of law...

Who would want to 'bravely' own up to that and take ALL the blame if someone else helped him?

No one.

a reply to: MotherMayEye

Here's another article... with another story:

Orlando survivor admits TRAPPING other club-goers inside after he escaped but claims he thought he was 'doing the right thing'

Nearby, he saw people moving through a small 'employee's only' door hidden behind a curtain, and followed after.

On the other side of the door was a narrow hallway where Burbano estimates about 20 people were crawling over each other to get to the exit at the other end.

Burbano says he decided to shut the door behind him because the hallway was getting dangerously overcrowded.

But:

There does seem to be at least one major discrepancy between Burbano's story and those that were locked in the club.

Witness Janiel Gonzalez told ABC News that it was the exit door to the outside, and not the 'employee's only' door that someone slammed shut.

Just how many doors were there in this place? The front entry, where the shooter was... the employee door... and the patio door... so three?

a reply to: Boadicea

Just how many doors were there in this place?

That would be 7, Bo, there were 7 exits in the nightclub

So I did some more searching and found a couple floorplan diagrams for the nightclub. Two of the exits lead into what could be called a long "hallway." There is another that leads to the patio through a small room off the main room that could be a possibility. All exterior doors are designated as opening out according to the diagram at this ABC article, which they attribute to the City of Orlando Records Department.

Another floor plan diagram at Washington Post.

a reply to: MotherMayEye

a reply to: Boadicea

And here is Janiel Gonzalez...the other guy that *ahem* held the door closed.

I need the night to think this stuff over, but man, doesn't this stink to high heaven?

Janiel Gonzalez

originally posted by: Boadicea
a reply to: MotherMayEye

Here's another article... with another story:

Orlando survivor admits TRAPPING other club-goers inside after he escaped but claims he thought he was 'doing the right thing'

Nearby, he saw people moving through a small 'employee's only' door hidden behind a curtain, and followed after.

On the other side of the door was a narrow hallway where Burbano estimates about 20 people were crawling over each other to get to the exit at the other end.

Burbano says he decided to shut the door behind him because the hallway was getting dangerously overcrowded.

But:

There does seem to be at least one major discrepancy between Burbano's story and those that were locked in the club.

Witness Janiel Gonzalez told ABC News that it was the exit door to the outside, and not the 'employee's only' door that someone slammed shut.

Just how many doors were there in this place? The front entry, where the shooter was... the employee door... and the patio door... so three?

Sorry, I just saw this! You were already on it.

It's an unraveling, for me. I accept nothing we've been told at face value!

originally posted by: MotherMayEye
a reply to: Boadicea

And here is Janiel Gonzalez...the other guy that *ahem* held the door closed.

I need the night to think this stuff over, but man, doesn't this stink to high heaven?

Janiel Gonzalez

Oh no! Janiel wasn't the "random guy" that helped -- he's one of the patrons that was blocked from exiting:

Survivor Janiel Gonzalez said a man locked an exit door he was trying to use, which trapped dozens of other innocent people inside the club during the shooting. Eventually, Gonzalez was able to make an escape

And:

Witness Janiel Gonzalez told ABC News that it was the exit door to the outside, and not the 'employee's only' door that someone slammed shut.

If that's the case, then Burbano's excuse that he was trying to protect from overcrowding in the hallway doesn't line up.

Here's another interesting account about the crowded hallway from a totally different person and perspective:

Marine vet's quick actions saved dozens of lives during Orlando nightclub shooting

a reply to: Boadicea

Ah, yes. Sorry, the way the article began made me think Janiel was someone holding the door. Will read through now...

ETA: It doesn't help that I have a friend IRL that said he saw an interview with another person that said he held the door closed. I've yet to see it myself though and think he saw a Burbano interview and is just mistaken.

originally posted by: Boadicea

Here's another interesting account about the crowded hallway from a totally different person and perspective:

Marine vet's quick actions saved dozens of lives during Orlando nightclub shooting

Do you think that was the same door? Could it have been a different one?

a reply to: MotherMayEye

Take the following with a grain of salt (and a shot of tequila )...

My best guess is that it was the same hallway, but a different door. If you look at the ABC article floorplan, at the "hallway" in the upper left across the top, there are two doors into that hallway, and I'm thinking the Marine was by the door on the left, closest to the exit from the hallway, and the guy blocking the door was at the other door on the right. But if there was a gate at the right end into the patio, then the Marine could have been at the right door.

But there's also a small room off the main room which leads to a door to the patio. From the descriptions given, that small room could have been considered a hallway too I suppose. And the one guy said it led directly outside, which would probably be the patio area. I'm going to have to read all these accounts again -- and maybe find more -- to try to make some sense of it.

a reply to: Boadicea

I think it's very odd Burbano allegedly said, "Stay inside! Stay inside!"

If he was only meaning to let people clear out of the hallway for a few seconds (which is disputed by Janiel), then I'd think he would say that, not tell them to stay inside.

I just don't believe Burbano, at all. Reading those comments at the daily mail...many people seem to feel the story is suspect, too.

a reply to: MotherMayEye

Everything is just "off" about this -- his story, his verbiage, his body language. Everything. If he's not lying through his teeth, then maybe he's just a total narcissist. Because that seems something a narcissist would do: Put others in danger to save his own sorry butt -- and then go on national TV to justify his actions.

But what really strikes me cold is his complete lack of visible emotion. I was shaking and crying as I read about this, and I wasn't even there. I was shocked and shaking again when I first watched this guy describing what he (supposedly) did -- can you imagine how those other patrons felt? First the shock and terror of the gunman... then someone deliberately blocking their escape and basically condeming them to die a horrible horrible death??? What a freaking double whammy! But I saw no tears, no gulps, no lumps in the throat... nothing that indicated any emotional trauma. I would think even a narcissist -- perhaps especially a narcissist -- would still be emotionally reeling from the clear and present danger he had just escaped...

So I think he's just a lying liar. I'm going to continue checking this out... I'll try to put everything together and find a way where everyone -- including this guy -- can be telling the truth. But I seriously doubt it!

a reply to: MotherMayEye

Wow. Just wow. You're not going to believe this.

Inside the Orlando Nightclub Carnage: Witnesses Speak Out

The above article is dated June 12, and is one of the first with witness accounts... including the self-confessed door blocker... except somehow he forgot to mention that little part...

A man who was inside the Orlando gay nightclub that was the scene of a massacre early this morning described the mayhem as people were trying to figure out what was going on.

Luis Burbano said that at first he thought the sound of gunshots was just being done by the DJ who was adding effects to the set.

"I don't remember screaming. I don't even remember breathing. I just remember dragging my best friend down," Burbano told ABC News.

As he was trying to get out of the club, called Pulse Orlando, which bills itself on its website as "Orlando's Premier Gay Night Club," Burbano said it was somewhat difficult because there was "everything from drinks on the floor to blood."

Once there was a break in the shooting, Burbano said that he and his friends "started jetting toward the side exit" but as they headed in that direction, "the volume of the gunshots started getting closer and louder."

But he did think to tell about what a hero he was:

"I lost my shirt because I used them as tourniquets," he said, telling of how he saw one man who "lost half his arm and this other man was walking around with a bullet in his leg and he had no idea."

Maybe he did tell ABC and they just didn't think it was worth mentioning... even after speaking of Janiel Gonzelez?

Janiel Gonzales had just ordered a Red Bull when he heard the sound of shots, prompting him to drop to the floor.

"He was just spraying very wildly, like whoever was in the way was going to get hit, basically," Gonzales told ABC News of the shooter.

Hmmmmm.....

a reply to: MotherMayEye

And check this out...

While following this rabbit hole, I read about a witness/surviver named Javer Antonetti telling the Orlando Sentinel that he "saw two guys with guns", so I searched "orlando sentinel + I saw two guys + javer antonetti", and found --

Police respond to mass shooting at Pulse nightclub ... - Orlando Sentinel www.orlandosentinel.com/.../os-orlando-shooting-pulse-nightclub-st... Orlando Sentinel 4 days ago - Javer Antonetti, 53, went out to the club with his brother. He was ... "I saw two guys and it was constant, like 'pow, pow, pow,' " he said. He said ...

-- as the third option. So I click on the link and find a completely different article with absolutely no mention of Javer Antonettie or two gunmen.

So I go back to the search and click the cached version and find this:

Javer Antonetti, 53, went out to the club with his brother. He was towards the back of the room when he heard shots ring out. "There were so many, at least 40," he said. "I saw two guys and it was constant, like 'pow, pow, pow,' " he said. He said he ran out of the club. His brother is on crutches and was stuck inside. Antonetti said authorities were able to help save his brother, who he says is uninjured but still near the club. "I'm not going anywhere," he said. "Police told me he's safe but he's still stuck back there." He's waiting near Orlando Regional Medical Center. Antonetti noticed when he made it out safe that he has blood smears on his shirt. He said he doesn't know how they got there and didn't see how many were injured.

Could the second gunman be the off-duty cop that reportedly initially engaged him? Maybe, but I doubt it. That altercation was said to have taken place outside the entrance... and this guy said he was "towards the back of the room"... so I doubt he could have seen the initial gunfight.

The question is, who is trying to scrub this and why???

ETA: Found another article from the Orlando Sentinel with a partial quote from Antonetti:

Javer Antonetti was ordering Latin-inspired dishes at the back of the nightclub when he heard the shots. Omar Mateen called 'calm, cool' during Pulse nightclub massacre Omar Mateen called 'calm, cool' during Pulse nightclub massacre "It was constant like 'pow, pow, pow," the 53-year-old said.

Note which part of the quote was deleted.