Take a break, please.

And we're still approaching this emotionally.

It's politically driven, media-fueled, and we(as a nation) still haven't focused on the core issue.

I've now seen countless posts actually blaming Christians, the gun shop owner, heterosexuals, for the attack.

This happened because someone was influenced by ISIS. The coward wanted to kill, create terror. In that he succeeded all too well.

We are, as a nation, afraid.

We aren't taking the fight to ISIS. We are ignoring the problem and trying to find a way to avoid the bully. Instead of facing ISIS, we're looking to blame guns.

It's embarrassing.

originally posted by: DBCowboy
And we're still approaching this emotionally.

It's politically driven, media-fueled, and we(as a nation) still haven't focused on the core issue.

I've now seen countless posts actually blaming Christians, the gun shop owner, heterosexuals, for the attack.

This happened because someone was influenced by ISIS. The coward wanted to kill, create terror. In that he succeeded all too well.

We are, as a nation, afraid.

We aren't taking the fight to ISIS. We are ignoring the problem and trying to find a way to avoid the bully. Instead of facing ISIS, we're looking to blame guns.

It's embarrassing.

Actually I am not even sure ISIS is to blame, the more I learn about this guy, he was a self-loathing closeted homosexual, he needed to make his daddy and Allah happy, and thus find his 72 virgins by martyring 49 people besides himself.

a reply to: BubbaJoe

Every person who has ever perpetrated a mass killing has been messed up.

No "normal" person does this.


We're looking at a burning building and arguing over what smoke detectors we need.

originally posted by: DBCowboy
a reply to: BubbaJoe

Every person who has ever perpetrated a mass killing has been messed up.

No "normal" person does this.


We're looking at a burning building and arguing over what smoke detectors we need.

I agree, I am having a hard time wrapping my head around this incident. According to reports, this guy was investigated at least twice by the feds, and reported a third time according to the gun shop owner. My mind wonders how he was still able to purchase firearms?

He had a history of discipline problems in school, was denied entry into a police accademy, and had a history of domestic violence. He frequented gay clubs and participated on gay dating sites. The FBI is saying he had no direct contact with ISIS, but supported them, Al-Queda, and Hezbollah, who are enemies.

How the hell did this guy slip through so many cracks?

a reply to: DBCowboy




I think the guy was a narcissists with sever anger/religious/sexuality issues - yikes. he was probably dissatisfied with his life and mad as hell, to the extreme.

he knew by connecting himself to isis we would talk about it, we are. his story will eventually make a
dateline episode - yay!

I think there might be quite a few just like him brewing in this political climate. that worries me more than isis...

a reply to: BubbaJoe

We are at war. Only we don't act as if we are.

If, during WWII, German or Japanese sympathizers killed people, we wouldn't be so quick to remove the rights of Americans.

It's messed up.

a reply to: knoxie

What terrorists DON'T have personality issues?

Name me one terrorist that has no issues and is completely normal. You can't. No one can.

This is what terrorists are. They are sick individuals with mommy issues and feelings of 'whatever".

originally posted by: BubbaJoe
I agree, I am having a hard time wrapping my head around this incident. According to reports, this guy was investigated at least twice by the feds, and reported a third time according to the gun shop owner. My mind wonders how he was still able to purchase firearms?

How the hell did this guy slip through so many cracks?

Because watch lists don't prevent someone from purchasing guns. It's something they want to fix, but pro 2nd amendment people disagree with the concept of a list that takes away your rights without trial.

a reply to: Aazadan

It's an important aspect. This right to due process.

It flies in the face the whole idea of being innocent until proven guilty.

originally posted by: DBCowboy
a reply to: BubbaJoe

We are at war. Only we don't act as if we are.

If, during WWII, German or Japanese sympathizers killed people, we wouldn't be so quick to remove the rights of Americans.

It's messed up.

We are at war, but not sure how to prosecute a war only against the radical arm of a worldwide religion, without violating the rights of those that do not deserve to have their rights violated.

originally posted by: DBCowboy
a reply to: knoxie

What terrorists DON'T have personality issues?

Name me one terrorist that has no issues and is completely normal. You can't. No one can.

This is what terrorists are. They are sick individuals with mommy issues and feelings of 'whatever".

Do you have a magical terrorist detector, that you are waiting on the patent for before you introduce it to the public. I am as pissed off as you are, I am not sure how we fight this war without violating our freedom.

originally posted by: DBCowboy
It's an important aspect. This right to due process.

It flies in the face the whole idea of being innocent until proven guilty.

I agree. The problem with due process though is it applies equally to the honest citizen as well as the would be criminal that's just a day away from pulling the trigger.

Short of some new idea which I have yet to hear anyone propose (and I have to admit, I'm drawing a blank too), it seems to me like if we want to stop these attacks w can only have 2 of the 3: 2nd, due process, freedom. Personally, I think most of the reasons for the 2nd are outdated so I would look to start there, but many people have strong feelings on the 2nd so it's an opinion worth respecting and even I admit that a complete removal from the second would only mitigate the problem it wouldn't solve it.

originally posted by: BubbaJoe
Do you have a magical terrorist detector, that you are waiting on the patent for before you introduce it to the public. I am as pissed off as you are, I am not sure how we fight this war without violating our freedom.

Is it a war we should fight in the first place? I don't know about you, but I'm willing to accept 100 or 200 dead per year to terrorist attacks in order to save billions of dollars fighting a war, and thousands of lives that get caught up in shootouts.

I think that the best weapon we could develop is an iron resolve. When these attacks happen we should accept it, and maybe grieve, but also use it as an excuse to publicly double down on not negotiating with these people or caving to pressure.

These people are trying to fight us financially, I've outlined it before, in this thread even so I'll save repeating myself except to say. The only people we should go after are terrorist financiers, and the way to fight their economic damage is for every attack they make that encourages us to stay in our homes, we go out and enjoy ourselves twice.

Unfortunately, that's not the message the media wants to broadcast. Instead they're complicit in encouraging people to be afraid.

originally posted by: Aazadan

originally posted by: DBCowboy
It's an important aspect. This right to due process.

It flies in the face the whole idea of being innocent until proven guilty.

I agree. The problem with due process though is it applies equally to the honest citizen as well as the would be criminal that's just a day away from pulling the trigger.

Short of some new idea which I have yet to hear anyone propose (and I have to admit, I'm drawing a blank too), it seems to me like if we want to stop these attacks w can only have 2 of the 3: 2nd, due process, freedom. Personally, I think most of the reasons for the 2nd are outdated so I would look to start there, but many people have strong feelings on the 2nd so it's an opinion worth respecting and even I admit that a complete removal from the second would only mitigate the problem it wouldn't solve it.

Here is another thing I am having a hard time with. Those that want to protect the 2nd, are willing to violate several others, including racial profiling, freedom of religion, freedom of speech, illegal search and seizure, the list goes on. How do we protect the American, and in fact the western world, from these nutjobs?

originally posted by: BubbaJoe

originally posted by: DBCowboy
a reply to: knoxie

What terrorists DON'T have personality issues?

Name me one terrorist that has no issues and is completely normal. You can't. No one can.

This is what terrorists are. They are sick individuals with mommy issues and feelings of 'whatever".

Do you have a magical terrorist detector, that you are waiting on the patent for before you introduce it to the public. I am as pissed off as you are, I am not sure how we fight this war without violating our freedom.

I wish I had a detector. But to be honest, it would probably ping towards DC and negate any benefits.

I too, have no idea how to fight this war without losing freedoms. What I do know, is that we'll never find the answer if we continue to treat this emotionally.

originally posted by: BubbaJoe
Here is another thing I am having a hard time with. Those that want to protect the 2nd, are willing to violate several others, including racial profiling, freedom of religion, freedom of speech, illegal search and seizure, the list goes on. How do we protect the American, and in fact the western world, from these nutjobs?

See my above post, I double posted and it looks like we responded at the same time. I think there's a very real argument that we shouldn't protect ourselves. To be perfectly honest I don't think it's possible, and I certainly don't think it's financially responsible. Part of freedom entails risk, because it means other people have the freedom to make plans to kill people and then carry them out.

originally posted by: Aazadan
Part of freedom entails risk, because it means other people have the freedom to make plans to kill people and then carry them out.

And you just nailed it.

It's what I've been saying for days.

originally posted by: Aazadan

originally posted by: BubbaJoe
Do you have a magical terrorist detector, that you are waiting on the patent for before you introduce it to the public. I am as pissed off as you are, I am not sure how we fight this war without violating our freedom.

Is it a war we should fight in the first place? I don't know about you, but I'm willing to accept 100 or 200 dead per year to terrorist attacks in order to save billions of dollars fighting a war, and thousands of lives that get caught up in shootouts.

I think that the best weapon we could develop is an iron resolve. When these attacks happen we should accept it, and maybe grieve, but also use it as an excuse to publicly double down on not negotiating with these people or caving to pressure.

These people are trying to fight us financially, I've outlined it before, in this thread even so I'll save repeating myself except to say. The only people we should go after are terrorist financiers, and the way to fight their economic damage is for every attack they make that encourages us to stay in our homes, we go out and enjoy ourselves twice.

Unfortunately, that's not the message the media wants to broadcast. Instead they're complicit in encouraging people to be afraid.

I am tired of war, would guess that we have been at war for a majority of my adult life. I am old enough to remember the newscasts over dinner of the VN War. My kneejerk, would be to pull every American out of the ME, and ignore whatever the hell happened after we left. They haven't sorted it out in the last 6000 years, most likely will not sort in the next 6000.

originally posted by: DBCowboy

originally posted by: BubbaJoe

originally posted by: DBCowboy
a reply to: knoxie

What terrorists DON'T have personality issues?

Name me one terrorist that has no issues and is completely normal. You can't. No one can.

This is what terrorists are. They are sick individuals with mommy issues and feelings of 'whatever".

Do you have a magical terrorist detector, that you are waiting on the patent for before you introduce it to the public. I am as pissed off as you are, I am not sure how we fight this war without violating our freedom.

I wish I had a detector. But to be honest, it would probably ping towards DC and negate any benefits.

I too, have no idea how to fight this war without losing freedoms. What I do know, is that we'll never find the answer if we continue to treat this emotionally.

I whole heartedly agree with it pinging towards DC.

originally posted by: Aazadan

originally posted by: BubbaJoe
Do you have a magical terrorist detector, that you are waiting on the patent for before you introduce it to the public. I am as pissed off as you are, I am not sure how we fight this war without violating our freedom.

Is it a war we should fight in the first place? I don't know about you, but I'm willing to accept 100 or 200 dead per year to terrorist attacks in order to save billions of dollars fighting a war, and thousands of lives that get caught up in shootouts.

I think that the best weapon we could develop is an iron resolve. When these attacks happen we should accept it, and maybe grieve, but also use it as an excuse to publicly double down on not negotiating with these people or caving to pressure.

These people are trying to fight us financially, I've outlined it before, in this thread even so I'll save repeating myself except to say. The only people we should go after are terrorist financiers, and the way to fight their economic damage is for every attack they make that encourages us to stay in our homes, we go out and enjoy ourselves twice.

Unfortunately, that's not the message the media wants to broadcast. Instead they're complicit in encouraging people to be afraid.

As harsh as that sounds, I too am willing to accept those odds. No laws would have prevented this horrific incident, if someone is intent on killing human beings, they will find a way. From everything I am reading, there were numerous times to stop this individual, and each and everyone of them were hoarked up by someone.