Take a break, please.

a reply to: seagull
We're in charge? Maybe we used to be. They've gamed the system in their favor. They might be corrupt, but they aren't stupid. About the only chance we have is another revolution. But even then the odds would be iffy.

a reply to: Spider879

Don't misconstrue my intent. Right now, I despise republicans and democrats.

a reply to: DBCowboy

It's always been up to us to keep that from happening, and it isn't too late to change that.

There is a creeping change occurring in American politics, or seems to be anyway, and it seems to be a change towards a more independent mindset.

I'm guessing, and Nov. will tell at least part of the tale, that third parties will have much more support than ever before...and if the trend continues, significant political change may be in the air. For good or for ill, remains to seen. It's up to us to feed and protect that trend...

You and I both have less ahead of us, then behind us...helping this along would be a pretty cool legacy, wouldn't it?

originally posted by: onequestion

originally posted by: DBCowboy
a reply to: ketsuko

We need to do something. but I don't want to shoot first and aim second.

So I'm just asking if we could make sure we're all aiming at the same target.

The world needs to set aside political agendas and annihilate the scourge known as isis and fanatically chase them to the ends of the earth and destroy them.

That will never happen, the real beings who need to be annihilated are not found in the media coverage or anywhere else for that matter, but they love the fact you think other humans are at fault for it all.,,,,,,,,,,

Very straight forward and needed thread!! S&F OP!!

I have not been able to post here since this tragedy occurred! I have tried several times, but I just can't....

I know I have been deeply effected by this as others have... And like you suggested we all need a little time!

Thank you for this!

Pax

Thank you for your kind words, OP. It's Gonna take a lot of time for some of us.

I understand not being personally affected by this tragedy but I know people that didn't even hear about this until I told them about it. How do these people go thought life without watching the news and knowing when such things happen is beyond me.

a reply to: Royweeezy

Not through lack of caring, or anything of the sort.

Most have their lives to live, kids to feed, things of that nature. Not sure when I'd have heard about it if I hadn't logged on to ATS the same day...

My TV hasn't been turned on in almost two weeks. One can only stomach so much "Presidential Politics"...

originally posted by: seagull
a reply to: DBCowboy

It's always been up to us to keep that from happening, and it isn't too late to change that.

There is a creeping change occurring in American politics, or seems to be anyway, and it seems to be a change towards a more independent mindset.

I'm guessing, and Nov. will tell at least part of the tale, that third parties will have much more support than ever before...and if the trend continues, significant political change may be in the air. For good or for ill, remains to seen. It's up to us to feed and protect that trend...

You and I both have less ahead of us, then behind us...helping this along would be a pretty cool legacy, wouldn't it?

yes, and I don't mean to imply that we are totally powerless. A few years ago, a new England state passed a gun law that the people refused to obey. The government did back down.

originally posted by: seagull
a reply to: DBCowboy

No we're not, unless we allow ourselves to be captive.

We goddamned well own them, if we're willing to do the work necessary. We have the power, they only think they do. But too many of us have been fooled into thinking it's the other way around. It quite simply is not, unless we're too stupid, too lazy, or otherwise can not be bothered.

That's the only captivity I see.

Many are complacent. Many don't want to fight alongside those they perceive as being their "enemies." Why else do you think we live in divide and conquer land?

If you keep dividing the groups who actually would ally ever smaller, ever smaller, then they are too busy maligning all the others who aren't enough like them to do things the way they would to be able to cut the real head off the snake.

If it actually came to toppling the government, I'd fight with whomever would pick up arms. I wouldn't necessarily worry as much about what their personal agenda was until after the hard work was done. That's when the time comes to figure out how you go from there.

originally posted by: DBCowboy
a reply to: ketsuko

We're always acting, reacting on an emotional level. We seldom use rational thought, logical thought to what the actual problem really is.

We're so used to reacting emotionally, that we've forgotten how to act rationally.

Reacting emotionally vs. rationally..

The precise strategic advantage of "terrorism" is exactly that? To knock your opponent sideways where their response is emotionally reactive vs. rational and thought out.

It would follow that the most effective response would be to deny them the advantage they seek and respond in a rational, well calculated, effective manner.

originally posted by: onequestion
a reply to: DBCowboy

I agree everyone needs to relax but we also need to have leaders who can think decisively and speak to the public in a way that puts these tensions at ease and not makes them worse.

We need to also remember that we make the hiring decision when it comes to our leaders. We make the rules of the game, reward the media for tabloid priorities and partisanship, we drive the news cycle...we set the stage, choose the standards and pick the candidates.

originally posted by: DBCowboy
a reply to: seagull
We're in charge? Maybe we used to be. They've gamed the system in their favor. They might be corrupt, but they aren't stupid. About the only chance we have is another revolution. But even then the odds would be iffy.

It might not be a popular view..but if we are to be adults in this world and take responsibility...I have come to believe that the meme that corrupt politicians have seized our government and there is nothing we can do about it is false.

If we are honest with ourselves the people of the united states have not only chosen and elected the leaders we have, but also lifted them to office on waves of partisan ideology and in the name of social and "culture war" causes. We have turned a blind eye to each indication of corruption in service of the partisan culture war.

Seagull is correct that an independent wave is rising...all of us would do well to support that wave when our belief system allows it in future elections...It is not just "party independence" but also a 3rd way that doesn't involve a populace divided into two competing camps...a scenario which has led us to where we are now.

originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: BubbaJoe

See? Maybe it's just me, but I can't think it's what they really want. At least I can't think it's what most of them want. No doubt there are some who do very much want that exactly.

I think that they want the same thing that those who push socialism and communism so hard want - they think that they will get a perfect world utopia if only everyone bought it perfectly this time. No more death, suffering, want, conflict, etc., Heaven on earth. All they have to do is make sure everything thinks, acts, believes exactly like they do one way or another. They have no qualms about using any and all tactics to achieve this. Shi'a 12vers will even seek to bring about the end of the world if that's what it will take.

True believers in socialism and communism suffer from the same disease, but are usually much less violent about it. However, they found their expressions in Mao and Stalin too who killed millions on their way to the perfect society ... utopia.

There is a barn we drive by every time we go to my visit my folks. For years, it has had the same slogan - "No God ... No Peace" one the top line with "Know God ... Know Peace" right underneath. This is intended to be interpreted in the spiritual sense, of course. The meaning being that if you find faith and accept it, it brings peace and acceptance to your life. It is an internal thing.

For Muslims like this, this message would be more externalized. If you do not know Allah, you will have no peace from them, ever, until you are either dead or forced to submit which is what Islam means.

But it isn't about reveling in death as much as it the mad belief that if they only destroy everyone who refuses to be exactly like them, the world will suddenly become a Paradise on earth as far as I can tell.

Careful, your faith is showing. Not that, in and of itself, is a bad thing if used for good, and not as a crutch to deny others their rights. I walked away from Christianity over 20 years ago due to the hipocrisy I constantly witnessed, and have considered myself a confirmed agnostic since then. So I do not share your faith in God or man for that matter.

I honestly would have no idea how to approach those that have been drawn to this version of Islam, am not sure what message might reach them, to satisfy their idea of utopia. My knee jerk reaction is to bomb them back to the stone age, but do not think that will work either.

originally posted by: seagull
a reply to: DBCowboy

It's always been up to us to keep that from happening, and it isn't too late to change that.

There is a creeping change occurring in American politics, or seems to be anyway, and it seems to be a change towards a more independent mindset.

I'm guessing, and Nov. will tell at least part of the tale, that third parties will have much more support than ever before...and if the trend continues, significant political change may be in the air. For good or for ill, remains to seen. It's up to us to feed and protect that trend...

You and I both have less ahead of us, then behind us...helping this along would be a pretty cool legacy, wouldn't it?

Third party seems to be a growing trend, hoping so. The problem we have is trying to keep big money out of it, Congress needs to revisit "Citizens United" and let we the people be able to have a say again.

Let us not forget the American Christian:

Timothy James McVeigh (April 23, 1968 – June 11, 2001) was an American terrorist convicted[3] and executed[4] for the detonation of a truck bomb in front of the Alfred P. Murrah Federal Building in Oklahoma City on April 19, 1995.[5] Commonly referred to as the Oklahoma City bombing, the attack killed 168 people and injured over 600.[6] According to the United States Government, it was the deadliest act of terrorism within the United States prior to the September 11 attacks, and remains the most significant act of domestic terrorism in United States history.

en.wikipedia.org...

a reply to: ketsuko

This first time this happened. We reacted as a country, together.

That only lasted about a minute in all reality.

Americans just love to fight each other.

We are own worst enemy.

a reply to: DBCowboy

California just pushed the gunpocalypse into the next committee...our rights are another step towards being stripped away. Nearly every liberal friend I have (I lived in the SF bay area for a while) say it is time to repeal the 2nd amendment and are spouting as much hate against gun owners and the NRA as they did when rioting against Trump.

a reply to: Swills

No way. The time to strike is now. What has happened to us Americans? Are we so afraid to be politically incorrect and look bad? For gosh sakes, grow some bills. We have pissy footed around these terrorists like we are scared to death. Time for some real action against these asses and time for leadership that does something. SOMETHING. Something to show we will respond at the very least. God, have we lost our ability to think fast? Go, go go! Get the bastards, round them up and shoot em. Rant done. God Bless our poor dead Americans.

originally posted by: Justso
a reply to: Swills

No way. The time to strike is now. What has happened to us Americans? Are we so afraid to be politically incorrect and look bad? For gosh sakes, grow some bills. We have pissy footed around these terrorists like we are scared to death. Time for some real action against these asses and time for leadership that does something. SOMETHING. Something to show we will respond at the very least. God, have we lost our ability to think fast? Go, go go! Get the bastards, round them up and shoot em. Rant done. God Bless our poor dead Americans.

Sorry for calling you out here rather than attacking just the argument but it sums things up perfectly.

This is why we get what we get with politicians. Because people abandon their principals for the illusion of safety, or worse for revenge. Another poster recently said they want the military to take people like this out preemptively. Another wanted armed guards on every block to enforce order. I'm not quite sure what you're asking for but it seems to be war. War against who? Do you want to lock people up before they commit a crime? Execute them for what they would maybe do in the future? And you say not doing those things is proof we've lost our way?

Emotional thinking right here.

a reply to: ketsuko


bull shi3t!!

my husband came home from work yesterday and one of his co worker (Christian) was babbling on about how he didn't feel sorry for the victims in Orlando. he said they were meant to be killed because it's in the bible!! he than proceeded to pull out his phone to show my husband the bible passage. my husband told him to put his damn phone away.

thank god for the sjw, with out us extremist Christians would be just as bad.