Public Universities Don't Want Science Students To Believe In God

originally posted by: saint4God

originally posted by: Woodcarver
Nobody except christians make the claim that people say that you cannot be a scientist and a christian.

Removed names

I did my senior research with x

Give them a call, they still work there last I'd checked.

We all know how psycho some of the religious finatics can be at times with their imaginations.



And, why would a scientist teach faith?

Their tact in their statement is lacking, but science is measurable not imagined. Right?

a reply to: saint4God

Name one thing you believe in that cannot be observed.

Wait wait.... How did faith save your life and your marriage?

I always love to hear these "i was a horrible person until i found god" stories.

originally posted by: avgguy
I'm not sure they don't want them to believe in God. Now some are very obtuse to any opinion other than theirs which is neither scholarly nor scientific, but that's just from personal experience in STEM.

This is a good point (although they had no problems railing into me for the stance on more than one occasion). I think the majority of students may be vulnerable enough though to take the professor's word as 'gospel truth' simply for not knowing any different, thus turning them away from ideas they should otherwise be exploring.

a reply to: saint4God

Einstien was not religious and he did not believe in any gods. He was using the language that he thought would reach people who shunned science in favor of religion. Just like Michio does when he speaks about knowing god's mind.

originally posted by: Woodcarver
a reply to: saint4God

Name one thing you believe in that cannot be observed.

Wait wait.... How did faith save your life and your marriage?

I always love to hear these "i was a horrible person until i found god" stories.

Or when it's an ex-con...

I have flashbacks to the movie Cape Fear.

originally posted by: Woodcarver
a reply to: TrueBrit

Do you disagree with your god about anything?

This is a great question! I'd like to put this in the "advanced thinking" category.

Yes, I disagree with God on a number of points. I'm clearly wrong, though I don't understand why and wish some things were different. But, 'thems the breaks' and I can always talk to Him about it.

originally posted by: Woodcarver
Do you completly agree with anyone else's opinion of what god likes or doesn't like?

I think it can be represented in percentage. Probably not 100%, but can certainly verify or cross-validate a great number of points to where I don't doubt their genuineness

originally posted by: saint4God

originally posted by: avgguy
I'm not sure they don't want them to believe in God. Now some are very obtuse to any opinion other than theirs which is neither scholarly nor scientific, but that's just from personal experience in STEM.

This is a good point (although they had no problems railing into me for the stance on more than one occasion). I think the majority of students may be vulnerable enough though to take the professor's word as 'gospel truth' simply for not knowing any different, thus turning them away from ideas they should otherwise be exploring.

Why did god even come up around these professors? Were you trying to inject god into everything until it annoyed the pisss out of them, so that they would lash out and you could feel persecuted?

It just seems that atheist professors wouldn't bring it up unless someone else did.

originally posted by: bobs_uruncle
a reply to: saint4God

Einstein on religion and science;

"I want to know how God created this world. I am not interested in this or that phenomenon, in the spectrum of this or that element. I want to know His thoughts; the rest are details."

"Science without religion is lame. Religion without science is blind."

more quotes here

Another piece of advice I think would've certainly helped my confidence then and is a good point in this discussion.

originally posted by: GetHyped
a reply to: saint4God

An unsourced article from a random woo woo website does not make for a great opening gambit.

Did you take a look at the website? It's hilarious!

Really!

Tachyons! Matrix! Simulations!

It has it ALL!

*I like websites which humor me from beginning ("GEOPHILOSOPHICAL ASSOCIATION OF ANTHROPOLOGICAL AND CULTURAL STUDIES") to the end ("Practical life as a school is formidable, but to consider it as an end in itself is manifestly absurd."). Yeah, not a bit of bias in this

a reply to: Woodcarver

That is wrong. Einstein was a religious man, but not in the christian way.
Source

OP: Your title makes a claim that "Public Universities" don't want students to believe in gods.

The only evidence you offer is your experience with four of your professors.

Anecdotal evidence at that.

As a scientist, do you find yourself believing things for which there is no evidence aside from one individual's testimony?

If not, I believe you might need to ask for your title to be more accurately worded ... something like ...

"A few of my college professors didn't approve of my religion."

Because that's all that's being offered here. That makes your title look like deliberate click-bait, and borders on a hoax.

originally posted by: Woodcarver
a reply to: saint4God

Which part of this OP describes his proof for god? The best i can pick out is that Dr. Kaku says the words "gods mind" a few times. Which completly blows my mind why he would use that language when describing quantum equations.

I agree, it looked more like a teaser for me. I guess someone who understands the math a lot more than I do would have to dig in there and say "yes it does" or "no it doesn't" for me. Maybe trying to would be a good activity for me when I have time after I retire in a few decades

But other than his awe of mathematics and the vastness of the universe, where is the proof you are describing?

I didn't receive my proof of God by studying science. I had a much more personal approach and would recommend others to do the same because in these online debates there's always room for doubt and new information, whereas once God pulled me out of one hell of an impossibly dooming situation, there's no chance of doubt. I can talk about God's character, how to help establish communication, the fact that I have my proof, but as far as proof for others, I can try to help them obtain it for themselves.

Did you only find this interesting because it said "proof of god's existance"? Did you look deeper into this article to pull the details of this proof out, so that you could explain this to us?

Candidly, Dr. Kaku had me at merely believing in God. The boldness to use the words "God" and "proof" as it relates to science was a great bonus. I like Physics theory in the few classes I've had that explained some, and although I get General Relativity for the most part, I'm completely lost on Special Relativity. Compound that with the formulas to explain this and String Theory, I'm at a total loss.

I have my proof, but was curious how Dr. Kaku proposed to prove it to others...or even if God would allow Dr. Kaku to do so since it's not the way I'd come to know God. God can do anything, but it doesn't mean He will do anything.

Or did you link us to a religious click bait site which uses michio's attempt to pander to the religious minded, so that you could do the same here.?

Nah, I was hoping my background was interesting enough to read, but if not, by the way here's a guy who's a lot more recognized in the science community that believes similar (We Are Not Alone ). I don't know this site and have no reason to inflate its view count.

I for one used to be an atheist when I was younger but as I matured I began to realize the naivete of such an idea. Contrary to what most consider the norm I formed my Religious beliefs through logic not faith. The more I think of how absolutely perfect and balanced this universe is the more I see the hand of "the creator". For instance if you were god and you wanted to put uniquely created souls through a sort of test of free will, then how else could you do so without this EXACT system we find ourselves in.

originally posted by: saint4God

originally posted by: Woodcarver
a reply to: TrueBrit

Do you disagree with your god about anything?

This is a great question! I'd like to put this in the "advanced thinking" category.

Yes, I disagree with God on a number of points. I'm clearly wrong, though I don't understand why and wish some things were different. But, 'thems the breaks' and I can always talk to Him about it.

originally posted by: Woodcarver
Do you completly agree with anyone else's opinion of what god likes or doesn't like?

I think it can be represented in percentage. Probably not 100%, but can certainly verify or cross-validate a great number of points to where I don't doubt their genuineness

Well, i do like honesty, so why do you think people have such different ideas about what god is and whats he wants from them?

To me, this is one of the biggest red flags. Along with all of the impossibleness in the bible, and all of the other religious books.

Scientists tend not to believe in supernatural events. Especially chemists and physicists.

If put to the test, i'm sure i can convince any one that supernatural is a misnomer. Once something is discovered, it is understood as having always been part of the natural world, and simply undiscovered.

But for something to be truly supernatural, it cannot ever be discovered, because it will by definition, not be able to interact with anything physical. Which puts the whole premise of a supernatural god to rest. You would then need to redefine god as a natural entity, which puts limitations on it's abilities. The same universal limitations we have to deal with. The christian god claims to have made us in his image, which clearly makes it a natural entity in the stories. Which makes it impossible for it to be a creator of universes.

This and a thousand other contradictions in 1 of a thousand ancient religions. The stories don't make sense because they were written by uneducated people thousands of years ago.

Fear of death and ostricization over these thousands of years, has led us to a point in our culture that people are still scared to let go of this fear based faith that is passed down from parents and peers, and not some far off deity.

originally posted by: JBDTheBeast
I for one used to be an atheist when I was younger but as I matured I began to realize the naivete of such an idea. Contrary to what most consider the norm I formed my Religious beliefs through logic not faith. The more I think of how absolutely perfect and balanced this universe is the more I see the hand of "the creator". For instance if you were god and you wanted to put uniquely created souls through a sort of test of free will, then how else could you do so without this EXACT system we find ourselves in.

Your awe of the universe is why you believe in god? Which god do you believe in?

What does your god want from you?

Are there people who disagree with you?

If god simply appears to people differently and he wants something different from everybody, why does it seem like he is pitting everyone against everyone else?

originally posted by: Mandroid7
How about you don't be a delta bravo and remove the name list pal

As you wish. You'll have to remove it from your reply as well though to completely remove it from the thread.

originally posted by: Mandroid7
And, why would a scientist teach faith?

Because they use it in their daily work whether it's religious faith, hypothetical faith, trend data faith, or other.

Their tact in their statement is lacking, but science is measurable not imagined. Right?

I agree it could've been stated by them in a less defiant and absolute manner. I agree science should be measurable, though many call things science that is not measurable. Infinity for example is not measurable, but used all the time in calculus.

originally posted by: saint4God

originally posted by: Woodcarver
a reply to: saint4God

Which part of this OP describes his proof for god? The best i can pick out is that Dr. Kaku says the words "gods mind" a few times. Which completly blows my mind why he would use that language when describing quantum equations.

I agree, it looked more like a teaser for me. I guess someone who understands the math a lot more than I do would have to dig in there and say "yes it does" or "no it doesn't" for me. Maybe trying to would be a good activity for me when I have time after I retire in a few decades

But other than his awe of mathematics and the vastness of the universe, where is the proof you are describing?

I didn't receive my proof of God by studying science. I had a much more personal approach and would recommend others to do the same because in these online debates there's always room for doubt and new information, whereas once God pulled me out of one hell of an impossibly dooming situation, there's no chance of doubt. I can talk about God's character, how to help establish communication, the fact that I have my proof, but as far as proof for others, I can try to help them obtain it for themselves.

Did you only find this interesting because it said "proof of god's existance"? Did you look deeper into this article to pull the details of this proof out, so that you could explain this to us?

Candidly, Dr. Kaku had me at merely believing in God. The boldness to use the words "God" and "proof" as it relates to science was a great bonus. I like Physics theory in the few classes I've had that explained some, and although I get General Relativity for the most part, I'm completely lost on Special Relativity. Compound that with the formulas to explain this and String Theory, I'm at a total loss.

I have my proof, but was curious how Dr. Kaku proposed to prove it to others...or even if God would allow Dr. Kaku to do so since it's not the way I'd come to know God. God can do anything, but it doesn't mean He will do anything.

Or did you link us to a religious click bait site which uses michio's attempt to pander to the religious minded, so that you could do the same here.?

Nah, I was hoping my background was interesting enough to read, but if not, by the way here's a guy who's a lot more recognized in the science community that believes similar (We Are Not Alone

). I don't know this site and have no reason to inflate its view count.

You said you can communicate with god? You 've touched on this several times now. Please go into detail about what horrible things you used to do and how believing in god got you to change your habits. Or was it an illness that was cured with prayer?

way off...woodcarver......the miracles........don't be so sure of yourself.....the faithers have countless miracles....

the guardian angel my son and his buds are sure of.....you know from their wild learning how to handle the 4 wheelers and bikes.....and then their cars....we're out in the country and the angels are forced to show their work when the boys make huge mistakes learning to ride. like in 4 wheel drive on a hill top.....ya put it in reverse to get back up the hill a little while waiting....then ya let go of the brake and coast down a little and then nail the throttle...but it's still in reverse

the crap goes flyin.....time goes into slow motion and he was able to determine how to land on his back with his legs up to block the 4 wheeler from crushing his head as it came flying down from above spinning and flipping.

hey, get in tune and ya see this stuff as a flow that removes all doubt.

originally posted by: GBP/JPY
way off...woodcarver......the miracles........don't be so sure of yourself.....the faithers have countless miracles....

the guardian angel my son and his buds are sure of.....you know from their wild learning how to handle the 4 wheelers and bikes.....and then their cars....we're out in the country and the angels are forced to show their work when the boys make huge mistakes learning to ride. like in 4 wheel drive on a hill top.....ya put it in reverse to get back up the hill a little while waiting....then ya let go of the brake and coast down a little and then nail the throttle...but it's still in reverse

the crap goes flyin.....time goes into slow motion and he was able to determine how to land on his back with his legs up to block the 4 wheeler from crushing his head as it came flying down from above spinning and flipping.

hey, get in tune and ya see this stuff as a flow that removes all doubt.

So, for example, when there are any number of children who die daily from accidents, or from bone cancer, are their Guardian Angels just busy that day? Are some of them incompetent to do their jobs?

Something a bit more accurate regarding Dr. Einstein's beliefs, in his own words ... from his Autobiographical Notes

. . . I came—though the child of entirely irreligious (Jewish) parents—to a deep religiousness, which, however, reached an abrupt end at the age of twelve. Through the reading of popular scientific books I soon reached the conviction that much in the stories of the Bible could not be true. The consequence was a positively fanatic orgy of freethinking coupled with the impression that youth is intentionally being deceived by the state through lies; it was a crushing impression. Mistrust of every kind of authority grew out of this experience, a skeptical attitude toward the convictions that were alive in any specific social environment—an attitude that has never again left me, even though, later on, it has been tempered by a better insight into the causal connections. It is quite clear to me that the religious paradise of youth, which was thus lost, was a first attempt to free myself from the chains of the 'merely personal,' from an existence dominated by wishes, hopes, and primitive feelings. Out yonder there was this huge world, which exists independently of us human beings and which stands before us like a great, eternal riddle, at least partially accessible to our inspection and thinking. The contemplation of this world beckoned as a liberation, and I soon noticed that many a man whom I had learned to esteem and to admire had found inner freedom and security in its pursuit. The mental grasp of this extra-personal world within the frame of our capabilities presented itself to my mind, half consciously, half unconsciously, as a supreme goal. Similarly motivated men of the present and of the past, as well as the insights they had achieved, were the friends who could not be lost. The road to this paradise was not as comfortable and alluring as the road to the religious paradise; but it has shown itself reliable, and I have never regretted having chosen it ...

Source: Einstein, Albert (1979). Autobiographical Notes. Chicago: Open Court Publishing Company, pp. 3-5