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originally posted by: saint4God
...which just lead to a lot of frustration by not being able to understand universally what was happening and why our part in it seemed absolutely pointless.
The six primary Planets are revolv'd about the Sun, in circles concentric with the Sun, and with motions directed towards the same parts, and almost in the same plane. . . . But it is not to be conceived that mere mechanical causes could give birth to so many regular motions. . . . This most beautiful System of the Sun, Planets, and Comets, could only proceed from the counsel and dominion of an intelligent and powerful Being.
originally posted by: Badgered1
I've said that on the Dawkins scale I am about 6.999.
I cannot be 100% sure there is no god/s, but so far I have been offered little evidence of it.
originally posted by: AMPTAH
originally posted by: Badgered1
I've said that on the Dawkins scale I am about 6.999.
I cannot be 100% sure there is no god/s, but so far I have been offered little evidence of it.
It's not a question of whether the evidence is there. Rather, it's a question of whether some particular individual can understand the evidence that is there. It's the same thing with a proof in calculus. Some people can understand the math, and recognize the evidence behind the claim of any proof. While, others either accept on faith, that the mathematicians know what they are talking about (i.e the Math Priests), or they believe that the mathematicians are full of it, and there's a conspiracy to deceive the rest of us, by using some abstruse complicated symbolism that nobody could really understand, but instead creates a mystique around their profession to trick us into accepting whatever they tell us must be true, and so control the larger population with their trickery.
originally posted by: saint4God
Why this is, I cannot say, but I can certainly recall being challenged by a number of college professors on my knowledge & experiences with God. One professor stated I "could not be both a scientist AND a Christian" as if I had no choice but to choose one or the other. When I was asked why I would bother with Biology/Chemisty when I have 'my faith', I answered, "I want to know how He does it. The smaller the life components, the more complex the mechanisms become." I like to compare it to a pocket watch which has one simple function: to tell time. Within the watch is a hundred and eighty parts that require three thousand steps to bring together. For me, science and faith are a perfect fit. More often than not, to begin experimentation and testing you've got to have faith in something even if it's previous results, trends, a hypothesis, et cetera.
There's a misconception that us scientists don't believe in God (or so this is what many will have students believe in universities). I'm approaching my 9th year as a Biochemist. I can say that at least 40% of the biochemists in my office without a doubt believe in God (most are Christian). Some don't, some I haven't had the discussion with, but by no means is it a small minority. To summarize, the representation of the 'real world' in secular academia does not reflect reality of the scientific and God believing world.
Although I couldn't say one way or another if theoretical physicist Dr. Kaku's details (as I don't understand them myself) are definitive proof of God, I find the article interesting:
Scientist says he found definitive proof that God exists
Public Universities Don't Want Science Students To Believe In God
originally posted by: Badgered1
But I could learn calculus without the need for any leap of faith.
Yes, it's possible, but not probable.
It's also possible that a lot of it is just words which no longer have meaning.
originally posted by: Woodcarver
You said you can communicate with god? You 've touched on this several times now.
Please go into detail about what horrible things you used to do and how believing in god got you to change your habits. Or was it an illness that was cured with prayer?
Saying that god has an open door policy, and that some people just have trouble getting in touch, is a clever way of putting the fault on the person instead of putting the onus on a god to be actually present and accountable. It also allows you to pretend that you are in a class that you can percieve as higher than others. You claim to have a direct line of conversation with a deity. That would make you super special wouldn't it? I certainly don't have that. I can't sell myself as a person who can talk to god.
originally posted by: saint4God
originally posted by: Woodcarver
You said you can communicate with god? You 've touched on this several times now.
He's got an open-door policy, which is nice. No need for inpreter or mediator, which I think is a fantastic benefit. Some people have problems with the approach and/or on the reception end.
Please go into detail about what horrible things you used to do and how believing in god got you to change your habits. Or was it an illness that was cured with prayer?
Neither, but an interesting conclusion to come to. I was considered a good kid by my parents with my only illness being seasonal allergies. Does trauma necessitate one seeking out God? I just wanted to know if I was right about nihilism or not. I have to say that posing the challenge did put myself into trouble that I needed help out of.
originally posted by: TrueBrit
a reply to: TzarChasm
All I would say about that, is that the differing conclusions being drawn have more to do with the areas of study that the scientists you mention are involved with, than it does with their individual faiths and belief systems.
originally posted by: Woodcarver
Well, i do like honesty, so why do you think people have such different ideas about what god is and whats he wants from them?
originally posted by: TzarChasm
originally posted by: TrueBrit
a reply to: TzarChasm
All I would say about that, is that the differing conclusions being drawn have more to do with the areas of study that the scientists you mention are involved with, than it does with their individual faiths and belief systems.
I don't see why. Those fields of study should all corroborate each other on some level, all pointing to the same thing, the same way forensics pieces together a crime scene.
We can recreate a Jurassic grassland scene but we can't figure out if a god once walked among us?
And once we get over that, there's the equal representation issue. Doesn't thor get a church? Or how about wadjet? Anubis? Vishnu? No temples in honor of the Norse pantheon, no monuments or groves as homage of the patrons of our ancestors. God is on our money but a little sensitivity to the diverse tastes of our people is too much to ask.
You can say anything with assurance. It's proving it that is the trick. And no matter what you say, you can't prove it to be true. You simply add the caveat that god is merely hiding the evidence, or that you cannot detect god and that there is another undetectable realm that only you have access to, but no tools of science can penetrate. Which is nothing more than circular reasoning. You do understand that a lot of people don't believe because there is absolutely zero evidence that what you are saying is true, and that the proper use of the scientific method does not allow for your opinion as proof. No matter how much assurance you say it with?
originally posted by: saint4God
originally posted by: Woodcarver
Well, i do like honesty, so why do you think people have such different ideas about what god is and whats he wants from them?
Looks like I missed this question before. I think even for Christians at times, despite what God says He wants, I think we try to decide what God wants from us. There's some incorrectly added 'qualifications' that really don't belong in what is otherwise very simple. We like to do things like compete, keep score, try to tip scales in our favour, justify our faults, cover our mistakes, believe we're in control, make judgements in instances we're not qualified to do so and other errors of selfishness or hubris. Proof text: "For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— not by works, so that no one can boast." Ephesians 2:8-9
This is what God wants: "...all people to be saved and to come to a knowledge of the truth. " from Timothy 1:4
Very well, how does one become 'saved'? "If you declare with your mouth, 'Jesus is Lord,' and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved." Romand 10:9
Not my words, not my rules, but can say with assurance, yes this is true.